Is US Obligated To Go To War To Defend Ukraine? (Spoiler: No)

In light of Russia's military moves in Crimea, there was quite a bit of talk about the sol called "Budapest Memo". This memo was signed in 1994 by the UK, Russia, the US and Ukraine as part of the deal the removed the nuclear weapons of the former Soviet Union from the territory of the newly independent Ukraine (aside, I bet they wish they had kept them now).

So does this memo obligate us to defend the territorial integrity of Ukraine? Nope.

Here's the memo:

1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.
6. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.

The relevant portions of the memo are points 1 & 6. All signatories to the agreement are "to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine". Should something happen (like the Russians ignoring point 1) that upsets this agreement, we are obligated to "consult" with the rest of the parties covered by the agreement.

I'm sure the Russians will be happy to abide by point 6 and "consult" about how they have flagrantly violated point 1 and then head off to a nice lunch somewhere in Geneva, Vienna or wherever they agree to laugh at us, I mean consult with us.

Bottom line...the Russians are going to get Crimea and if they want the rest of Ukraine because no one cares enough about it to start World War III over it.

Putin is going to continue to what he's been doing for years...reconstitute as much of the old Soviet empire as he can out of the bits that weren't smart or quick enough to join NATO at the first chance they had. No US President is going to stop this and no amount of tough talk or financial sanctions is going to stop Putin.

The only real question left is what happens when he runs out of non-NATO bits to gobble up and turns to places like the Baltic states which are NATO members? That's when things get...sporty.

Below the fold, everything you need to know about Ukraine crisis courtesy of Teh Fred in The Hunt for Red October.

Posted by: DrewM. at 12:24 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 So Russia is in violation. Give them their Nukes back.

Posted by: Vic at March 01, 2014 12:26 PM (T2V/1)

2 Time for war soon then?

Posted by: GMB who is anti everything at March 01, 2014 12:26 PM (nkPV9)

3 Pretty much spot on Drew

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 12:27 PM (t3UFN)

4 Phew!

Posted by: Barackhenaton at March 01, 2014 12:29 PM (GSIDW)

5 So what you're saying is, this is another disaster who's results I won't personally have to deal with?

Posted by: Emperor Barakakn at March 01, 2014 12:30 PM (Aif/5)

6

War for Ukraine over *this*?

That would be insane.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 01, 2014 12:30 PM (PwIqH)

7 Nope. 52% elected Duh!1-- the Braying Jackass twice. I want no part in this.

Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 12:31 PM (ULH4o)

8 Republican President 2017:

" There is a new Sheriff in town"

I can hope can't I?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 12:31 PM (t3UFN)

9 war? with Russia? Now?

we'll get our asses kicked
and I hate to admit that

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 12:31 PM (At8tV)

10 I'd hate to see the ROE's.

Posted by: Adam at March 01, 2014 12:32 PM (Aif/5)

11 "This memo was signed in 1994 by the UK, Russia, the US and Ukraine as
part of the deal the removed the nuclear weapons of the former Soviet
Union from the territory of the newly independent Ukraine (aside, I bet
they wish they had kept them now)."

The Soviet nukes on Ukraine soil had PAL codes, which it was estimated would have taken the Ukrainians 1-2 years to crack. So if Ukraine had ever seized the nukes, Russia would have had a pretext to launch a pre-emptive invasion of the whole country, and plenty of time to accomplish it.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at March 01, 2014 12:33 PM (DPMu1)

12 Actually Obama found out he's off the hook yesterday hence happy hour!

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:34 PM (GSIDW)

13 Navy,

You are so right. We had the technology to beat their superior numbers, now we don’t have the leadership, time, materials and will to head this off.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 01, 2014 12:34 PM (hbpQK)

14 7
Nope. 52% elected Duh!1-- the Braying Jackass twice. I want no part in this.

Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 12:31 PM (ULH4o)

Yeah, give the 52% a pack full of fake ammo, a broken M4, and a Baby Ruth and send them over there to fight.

Posted by: Vic at March 01, 2014 12:34 PM (T2V/1)

15 No US President is going to stop this and no amount of tough talk or financial sanctions is going to stop Putin.

Whew. I'm off the hook. Back to some golf and fundraisin'!

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at March 01, 2014 12:34 PM (Dwehj)

16 I used to work with delinquent kids. If you are experienced, and a fight breaks out, turn and watch the other kids. If the bubble goes up in Ukraine, watch out for NK, Iran, China, they will be up for their play while our amateur King Putt fumbles around.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 12:35 PM (OGuBw)

17 Oh, left out one thing. Send Clinton as their "General" except before he leaves stick this memo up his ass.

Posted by: Vic at March 01, 2014 12:35 PM (T2V/1)

18 I think it was Vic who mentioned this earlier. Why the fuck was Clinton signing this shit in the first place? And why the fuck didn't anyone know about it?

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 12:35 PM (IV4od)

19
We live in a time when half the world is destabilized and the other half is teetering on epic bankruptcy.

Exciting, yes?

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 01, 2014 12:35 PM (PwIqH)

20 " We are in the presence of a disaster of the first magnitude which has befallen Great Britain and France. Do not let us blind ourselves to that. It must now be accepted that all the countries of Central and Eastern Europe will make the best terms they can with the triumphant Nazi Power. The system of alliances in Central Europe upon which France has relied for her safety has been swept away, and I can see no means by which it can be reconstituted.

The road down the Danube Valley to the black Sea, the resources of corn and oil, the road which leads as far as Turkey, has been opened. In fact, if not in form, it seems to me that all those countries of Middle Europe, all those Danubian countries, will, one after another, be drawn into this vast system of power politics - not only power military politics but power economic politics -- radiating from Berlin, and I believe this can be achieved quite smoothly and swiftly and will not necessarily entail the firing of a single shot....

They should know that there has been gross neglect and deficiency in our defences; they should know that we have sustained a defeat without a war, the consequences of which will travel far with us along our road; they should know that we have passed an awful milestone in our history, when the whole equilibrium of Europe has been deranged, and that the terrible words have for the time being been pronounced against the Western democracies.

"Thou are weighed in the balance and found wanting."

And do not suppose that this is the end. This is only the beginning of the reckoning.This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour, we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in the olden time."

Winston Churchill, October 5, 1938

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at March 01, 2014 12:36 PM (5xmd7)

21 war? with Russia? Now?

we'll get our asses kicked
and I hate to admit that
Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 12:31 PM (At8tV)

Look no one is talking about going to War over this but the Russians would NOT kick our asses. What ever short comings our Military has, the Russian Military is totally fucked up for the most part save some of their Nuclear Forces

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 12:36 PM (t3UFN)

22 It's comforting to know that Ukraine's fate is in the capable hands of Sam Power, a soccer mom from Dublin, Ireland.

Posted by: Fritz at March 01, 2014 12:36 PM (PnMCP)

23 Drew, the US isn't obligated by the treaty, what about the UK? Im curious to see what the emergency NATO meeting results will be as well

Posted by: Chris at March 01, 2014 12:37 PM (WjMgb)

24 This world needs some good old fashioned imperialism. Things were starting to get stale around here.

Posted by: Elephant in the Room at March 01, 2014 12:37 PM (Ggh94)

25 Why the fuck was Clinton signing this shit in the first place? And why the fuck didn't anyone know about it?
Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 12:35 PM (IV4od)

It doesn't matter. It is as worthless as the Munich Agreement. It's not worth the paper it is written on. It was all fro show not for go. And it has no legal meaning.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 12:38 PM (t3UFN)

26 Obama will call the Russian soldiers in Ukraine undocumented immigrants and call for amnesty.
GOP will back him up.

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:38 PM (GSIDW)

27 Don't worry, I'm meeting with the security council in 30 minutes. We'll hash out what youtube video caused all of this.

Posted by: Susan Rice at March 01, 2014 12:38 PM (Aif/5)

28 Things get more interesting when Russia grabs the Ukranian salient consisting of the eastern provinces. Crimea was a done deal to everyone but the people paid billions to know.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 12:39 PM (sOtz/)

29 Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 12:38 PM (t3UFN)

So, no exec. order negating it, then?

Posted by: BignJames at March 01, 2014 12:39 PM (j7iSn)

30 14?

Vic?

Exactly. I have withdrawn from commerce and society as much as is humanly possible. I know longer recognize much of Ø-Merica. Screw 'em. They wanted this foolishness- let 'em deal with the consequences.

Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 12:39 PM (ULH4o)

31
"The only real question left is what happens when he runs out of non-NATO
bits to gobble up and turns to places like the Baltic states which are
NATO members?"

NATO should have been disbanded long ago, along with the Warsaw Pact.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at March 01, 2014 12:40 PM (DPMu1)

32 That;s the kind of crap agreement you expect from a Clinton.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2014 12:40 PM (P1WNR)

33 I'll say one thing about "not having to go to war over this". Evidently the Ukraine sure as Hell thinks we are supposed to do something because they have been screaming.

Posted by: Vic at March 01, 2014 12:41 PM (T2V/1)

34 I think Jean had it right in the last thread. How do you neuter Putin? Its a fantasy with Obama and all the enviroweenies but the way to do it would be to increase the oil and natural gas production in the US, driving down global prices. I figure that would be Reagan's approach today. In the 80's it was to bankrupt them by increasing the military because they would try to match us. Today it would be to cripple their economy by killing the profitability of the only thing propping them up.

Posted by: buzzion at March 01, 2014 12:41 PM (LI48c)

35
China is smarter, they are just gobbling up parts of Africa for their natural resources.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 12:41 PM (gorVZ)

36 "It doesn't matter. It is as worthless as the Munich Agreement. It's not
worth the paper it is written on. It was all fro show not for go."

For show? How could it have been for show if nobody even knew or cared about it. What it was was Clinton making promises to an emerging nation he had no business making. It doesn't matter if the treaty or memo is no good, what matters is the promises made.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 12:42 PM (IV4od)

37 The American public can sleep at night knowing that Uncle Joe has been conducting extensive mock mobilization exercises in the White House game room.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at March 01, 2014 12:42 PM (Dwehj)

38 Russian parliament asking Putin to recall Russian ambassador from the US.
That's never a good sign.

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:42 PM (GSIDW)

39 21 they would and here's why
over the last few years we've been downsizing and letting our advanced systems go stagnant
they have been building and making more advanced systems

they have one big advantage though, they have logistics in place right now for this theatre

we're spread out way to thin

logistics my man wins wars

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 12:43 PM (At8tV)

40 Guardian bullet:

"Ukrainian groups are calling for mobilisation in response to Putin’s proposal to send Russian troops to the Ukraine."

zerohedge has a post that includes:

"And while military escalation is now an official reality instead of

merely YouTube clips of unidentified crap troops , Russia just sent

another major warning shot across the bow when it issued several

warnings on Saturday that Ukraine may lose a discount to the gas price

it now pays to Gazprom due to Kiev's outstanding gas debt."

LINK: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kc8cu8z

Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2014 12:43 PM (JBggj)

41 Palins on the buck sexton show on the Blaze radio right now

Posted by: Chris at March 01, 2014 12:43 PM (WjMgb)

42 34 I think Jean had it right in the last thread. How do you neuter Putin?

--

Putin lives in the real world. He's got all the cards right now.

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:43 PM (GSIDW)

43 My takeaway from all this is that six years ago Sarah Palin knew more about the intelligence about what would be happening in 2014 in this part of the world than our intelligence community does now.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 12:44 PM (BeSEI)

44 Damn, even I didn't fuck things up this badly.

Posted by: Jimmah Cahtah at March 01, 2014 12:44 PM (xSegX)

45 logistics my man wins wars
--------

Sorta OT but it's also why anyone who says the Soviets won WWII single handily doesn't know what they're talking about.

Posted by: Adam at March 01, 2014 12:45 PM (Aif/5)

46 So we have half a dozen nations making secret agreements about Nukes and defense. We have one power made egotist wanting an empire, a fading nation with minimal assets, a nation led by a girly man in mom jeans who hates the US and everything non-Muslim.

Hum.... what we need is an archduke to assassinate in Serbia.

Posted by: Vic at March 01, 2014 12:46 PM (T2V/1)

47 Putin lives in the real world. He's got all the cards right now.

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:43 PM
=====
With respect, no, he doesn't.

Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2014 12:46 PM (JBggj)

48
Spot on, and what several of us have been saying. There's a concept, apparently difficult to grasp for some, that it is possible to have wildly dangerously incompetent leadership which, nonetheless, is not actually responsible for particular developments, and which in the end doesn't change an outcome. This is one.

Our "leadership" is as unfit and pathetic as, perhaps, ever in our history (and this extends beyond the executive branch, and into the uniforms as well). Yet this fact has played essentially no role in the development of this situation. Russia and Ukraine have their own dynamic. As Drew notes, no US president would do much to change the outcome we see unfolding.

Of course this description does *NOT* apply to the possible wider ramifications of Ukraine. US fecklessness has been on display for years, and so there is the chance this worsens matters by once again appearing to confirm US weakness (as others are saying here). Nor does this concept apply to Iran (or Syria, which is about Iran), or China, or the backsliding Latin America situation, or the momentum of the war against AQ in N. Africa and elsewhere - in those critical cases, having idiots in charge has had and is having portentous consequence.

Posted by: non-purist at March 01, 2014 12:46 PM (afQnV)

49 Putin lives in the real world. He's got all the cards right now.
Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:43 PM (GSIDW)

It's his to lose. He moves when he needs to move, he lets others move when he doesn't want his fingerprints on it.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2014 12:46 PM (xSegX)

50 Damn, even I didn't fuck things up this badly.

Heh.

Posted by: Zombie Ayatollah Khomeini at March 01, 2014 12:46 PM (Dwehj)

51 45 it's also why anyone who says the Soviets won WWII single handily doesn't know what they're talking about

yeppers
you don't fight Russia in the winter cause you can't bring in fuel, food or ammo

that's what saved Russia's ass

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 12:47 PM (At8tV)

52 46 what we need is an archduke to assassinate in Serbia

nah, the call to the end times and final war will be the cubs winning the world series

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 12:48 PM (At8tV)

53 47 With respect, no, he doesn't.

--

Vis-a-vis Ukraine, he pretty much does.
The Ukraine wants sovereignty, but they need fuel.

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:48 PM (GSIDW)

54 The only real question left is what happens when he runs out of non-NATO bits to gobble up and turns to places like the Baltic states which are NATO members? That's when things get...sporty.

The rest of NATO will - horror of horrors- have to kick in money for their own defense.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 01, 2014 12:50 PM (Hw3Gh)

55 52 -

So we're safe then.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 12:50 PM (BeSEI)

56 NCJ, also the fact that by 43 the vast majority of the Soviets logistical capability consisted of Studebakers.

Wonder where they got those from?

Posted by: Adam at March 01, 2014 12:51 PM (Aif/5)

57 The Ukraine wants sovereignty, but they need fuel.

Posted by: Votermom at March 01, 2014 12:48 PM
====
Ukraine has sovereignty. They need fuel and an arms deal. Let's see how Vlad would handle that.

Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2014 12:51 PM (JBggj)

58 The US doesn't fight to win. We shouldn't go to war with anyone. Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters because of our rules. Just like Vietnam.

Posted by: gene at March 01, 2014 12:51 PM (mczDr)

59 "The Ukraine wants sovereignty, but they need fuel."

Then if they want their sovereignty they better find a way to produce their own fuel or buy it from someone other than the putinites.

Posted by: GMB who is anti everything at March 01, 2014 12:52 PM (nkPV9)

60 If Russia wasnt expecting a response from the west, why are they bringing in so many tanks, attack helicopters and war ships?

I dont recall what they did in georgia, did they bring in mechanized troops with that invasion as well?

Posted by: Brewer at March 01, 2014 12:52 PM (WjMgb)

61 54 -

You know, Orwell destroyed the term "big brother" as a metaphor, but really, the western world has lived with its big brother, the USA, protecting their collective arses for decades now.

What happens when your big brother gets hooked on meth, and ceases to be capable of defending you anymore?

That's what Europe has to ask themselves now.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 12:53 PM (BeSEI)

62 I dont recall what they did in georgia, did they bring in mechanized troops with that invasion as well?

Posted by: Brewer at March 01, 2014 12:52 PM
===
Yep.

Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2014 12:53 PM (JBggj)

63 @51

That's true but I think Adam meant all the trucks, tanks, planes and everything else FDR gave Stalin. Without US trucks alone the Red Army would have stalled.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 12:53 PM (sOtz/)

64 Aug 14, 2008 · Story Highlights; Russian military appears in control of two key Georgia cities ; Georgia says more than 100 tanks, vehicles moving between Senaki and Kutaisi

Posted by: willow at March 01, 2014 12:53 PM (nqBYe)

65
Fragrantly?
ruh roh Scooby.

Posted by: bopiddy at March 01, 2014 12:54 PM (PSli5)

66 Posted by: Jimmah Cahtah at March 01, 2014 12:44 PM

A pox on you, you peanut-eating, rabbit-fleeing bastard.

Posted by: Zombie Mohammad Reza Pahlavi at March 01, 2014 12:55 PM (Dwehj)

67 Sarah Palin saw this coming to pass way back in 2008. Fuck every puke who mocked and ridiculed her for it.

Posted by: jmel at March 01, 2014 12:55 PM (Adix2)

68 Frack baby Frack. Cut Putin's financial legs out. Let us flood the world with oil and gas. That would get rid of the Oil Tic problem to.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 12:55 PM (OGuBw)

69 Russian defence spending 31 pct up on 2008 levels

* Aiming for 70 pct modern equipment by 2020

* Exercises aim to intimidate neighbours - Western analysts

By Peter Apps

LONDON, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Refitting Soviet-era warships, fielding new aircraft and tanks and seeking new overseas bases, the Russian military that now has troops on alert amidst a crisis in Ukraine is more potent than the force which briefly fought Georgia six years ago.

Moscow is seriously investing in building its clout. Since 2008, it has raised military spending by almost a third and drastically reformed both the armed forces and defence industry to tackle post-Cold War decay.

Posted by: willow at March 01, 2014 12:55 PM (nqBYe)

70 What's that German term again? Lebensraum, that's it!

Posted by: V Putin at March 01, 2014 12:56 PM (o3MSL)

71 27 dead, over hundred injured.
No idea what this is. Mass knife attack?
SW China -- the muslim Uighurs? No idea.

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 31m
27 dead in attack by knife-wielding men at train station in Kunming in south-west China, state news agency says http://bbc.in/NgymwM

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 12:56 PM (ZPrif)

72
Putin had Obastard figured out the day they did that stupid Overcharge button. How childish that was. He knew then and there that these people were all hat and no cattle, all show and no substance.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 12:56 PM (gorVZ)

73
The Budapest Memo was part of a very successful scramble to gather/neutralize as many ex-Soviet nukes as possible (others being in Belarus, Kazakhstan) after the break-up. That, and the acquisition of lots of Russian nuke material to be down-blended into reactor fuel were good operations that avoided what could have developed into multiple bad Tom Clancy novel scenarios.

And as Drew illustrates, the memo does not do anything close to obligate the US or UK to Ukraine's defense in this situation.

Posted by: non-purist at March 01, 2014 12:57 PM (afQnV)

74 The Russians have sent in a lot of attack helicopters as well as ground forces.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 01, 2014 12:58 PM (P1WNR)

75 Posted by: willow at March 01, 2014 12:55 PM (nqBYe)

Why it is almost like using your internal natural resources to support an aggressive military policy is a workable approach on the international scale.

Posted by: V Putin at March 01, 2014 12:58 PM (o3MSL)

76
@71 Probably Lutherans.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 01:00 PM (gorVZ)

77 Georgia, is not Ukraine, and the Russians had a tough time taking them down. Ukraine has a large army, problem is the east supports the Russians. Pressure may keep Russia out of the west, but the east is already gone. If PutyPutt does not see some serious push-back, sanction his cronies so they can't hang out in Miami, he will take the whole enchilada.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 01:00 PM (OGuBw)

78 Via HotAir (I know). http://tinyurl.com/katsh9b

Obama/Hillary re-endorsed the Budapest memo in 2010.

"The U.S. recognized Ukraine’s unique contribution to nuclear disarmament
and reconfirmed that the security assurances, recorded in the Budapest
Memorandum with Ukraine of December 5, 1994, remain in effect."

Again reassuring Ukraine when we had no business doing it.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:00 PM (IV4od)

79 So Clinton convinced them to give up their nukes.

I bet they're feeling kind of dumb about that right about now...

Posted by: the_sanity-guy at March 01, 2014 01:01 PM (YV/s9)

80 Mass knife attack that large must include a large # of men. I'd think. A lone nut with a knife can't stab hundreds of people, right?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:01 PM (ZPrif)

81 Obama/Hillary re-endorsed the Budapest memo in 2010.

Val, please power up the memory hole.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at March 01, 2014 01:03 PM (Dwehj)

82 How could it have been for show if nobody even knew or cared about it.

People knew about it then. Shit it was 20 years or so ago. And it was all for show then. It wasn't a treaty. It wasn't presented to Congress to ratify. For Show

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:04 PM (t3UFN)

83 "And as Drew illustrates, the memo does not do anything close to obligate the US or UK to Ukraine's defense in this situation."

But that's being a bit disingenuous, it's like we were telling Ukraine we got your back unless, you know, Russia invades you. Now sign over them nukes.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:05 PM (IV4od)

84 We all assume Obama actually opposed Russia and Mr. Ex-KGB Commie taking over Ukraine.

Why do I feel that is a bad assumption?

Posted by: Cybernetic Curmudegeon at March 01, 2014 01:05 PM (PQ3tU)

85
But I don't see Putin moving to "re-assemble" much more of the USSR. No need - even as in this case. Russia's vital interests in Ukraine are simple, and only slight changed since the imperial era: maintain dominant influence, exclude foreign great power influence, and maintain energy transport routes. I guess Crimea would be a separate, concrete interest in terms of access to Black Sea ports.

The Baltics were gobbled up purely as part of the defensive buffer, and their main value to the USSR was for higher-quality industrial activity. They are not, were not, and won't be strategic to Russia the way Ukraine always has been.

The 'stans? They present no problem to Moscow, in general. They're quite cooperative on economic matters, and no foreign great power has a chance of gaining influence in any of them, for various reasons. No need to re-integrate them. And in the Caucasus, remember that Armenia actually prefers a strong Russian connection. They have their dear friends the Turks to the south, the Turks' cousins the Azeris to their east, and the crazy Georgians 'tween them and the Black Sea. Armenia maintained Russian border guards and other security ties well past their independence in the 90s.

Posted by: non-purist at March 01, 2014 01:05 PM (afQnV)

86 BEIJING (AP) — A group of knife-wielding men attacked a train station in southwestern China on Saturday, leaving at least 27 people dead and another 109 injured, the official Xinhua News Agency said, making it one of the deadliest attacks in China in recent years.

Xinhua did not provide more details about the evening attack at the Kunming Railway Station in Yunnan province, or identify the attackers. Kunming city police said they did not have any immediate information to release about the attack.

Local television station K6 said that several of the attackers were shot by police and that victims were being transported to local hospitals.

The state-run Yunnan News said that the men were wearing uniforms when they stormed the railway station and that gunshots were heard after police responded.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:05 PM (ZPrif)

87 Again reassuring Ukraine when we had no business doing it.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:00 PM (IV4od)

It works nicely for me because I knew you had no intention of following through on this meaningless "agreement". KGB is not only purveyor of dezinformatsiya!

Posted by: V Putin at March 01, 2014 01:06 PM (o3MSL)

88 Hey all, when did we want to start segregating gays?

Posted by: RWC at March 01, 2014 01:06 PM (MtC8f)

89 Re Europe. It will be surprising how fast they move to re-align with their new Big Brother, Pooty-Poot. It will be like "Pax Americana" of the last half of the 20th century didn't exist.
The "New World Order" is coming and it's Pooty-Poot and the Chicoms, nothing like we (or the lunatic conspiracists) ever imagined. See Steyn's "After America".
Thanks idiot LIVs and the edumaction system and worthless Kardashian Kulture that gave us Barky O and his merry band of worthless conflict resolution chumps.
We'd better get used to how it feels to be a third rate power.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at March 01, 2014 01:07 PM (ClQSA)

90 "“In some states, they’re so far in the past they’re even pushing laws to legalize segregation based on sexual orientation,” said Obama in an address to the Democratic National Convention winter meeting in Washington."

Bringing the country together.

Posted by: RWC at March 01, 2014 01:07 PM (MtC8f)

91 "People knew about it then."

Really? We knew Clinton was making promises to Ukraine about having their backs but didn't really mean it? We knew that?

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:08 PM (IV4od)

92 This will serve the purpose of the Obama administration by forcing the Ukraine to develop renewable energy sources. Or die.

Solyndra: A second look?

Posted by: Daybrother at March 01, 2014 01:08 PM (YbmGC)

93 82?

NGU?

I spent years on Free Republic posting standalone articles with links to both Clintons' corruption. It didn't seem to matter to enough people. Ø-Merica's rot has gone on a long time.

Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 01:09 PM (ULH4o)

94 reports that shooting has started in Crimea

Posted by: Brewer at March 01, 2014 01:09 PM (WjMgb)

95 I stumped and voted for First Principles: Thompson's campaign for POTUS platform.

Damn McCain and Hillary.

Hell, McCain never heard of an opportunity to bomb that he didn't try his best to accomplish. The guy is an Rx mood enhancement drug addicted war monger. It would be one thing to truly protect the USA territory and US citizens' jobs and lives. But that is NOT and never has been McCain's agenda.

And Mittens, caught in the lie that he hunts, claimed to have shot at varmints (always missing the mark/sin).

And to all the idjits screaming that Obamalite Mittens had the "fire in the belly" prerequisite to "deserve" the GOP TICKET, complicit onus for the extent of our nation's self destruction rests in you, though you'd deny it.

The question of obligation to go to war to defend whatever? I say to defend the USA proper.

We aren't defending our Constitutional Republic by shooting at all the squirrels running around the globe, squirrels bred in other regions of the world than the US, squirrels fighting over a tree in a forest on the other side of the world where Americans haven't bothered to venture, let alone learn to comprehend and appreciate.

We aren't defending our Constitutional Republic by then authorizing our law enforcement agencies to shoot Americans at home, Americans like you or I, minding our own business (entails being self reliant) while contributing profits to society at large through the sweat of our personal labors.

Even were the US to despoil the spoiler, to militarily "defend" Ukraine, ask yourself: "what Ukrainian agenda are we talking about?" Governments change all the time. So we fight a war to establish a "good for us" government in Ukraine, and sooner than later, Ukrainians vote that bloc out of power. Which bloc is in power today is not tomorrow. Which people were in a bloc yesterday are not today. It is THEIR self determination to be made. It would be folly at best to presume the authority to act as God to another nation, dictating what they must be to avoid utter destruction from our hand. As if since Russia does it, we can justify our doing it, too? There it is. We're all losers, egging each other on and on.

Were we Gods, talk on. But we are not. We aren't even righteous enough to keep our own temples cleansed of money changers and the promotion of corruption that denies human dignity to even the least of us.

War. When the war defends and supports the US Constitutional Republic and our Bill of Rights, FIGHT for the truth of Liberty. But when each new military intervention augments the destruction of our Constitutional Republic by revisionism, ceding authority into the hands of authoritarian dictators and transnational corporations which pursue the economic death of Liberty in favor of power monopoly in the hands of the few? To hell with that.

Which of our nation's leaders have the brains and the guts to call that out? And where are the American citizens to vote out from office those who profit from our demise?

If there's any thing to be done "about" Russia's aggression, it is for Americans to clean our home, now. And for God's sake, don't abandon responsibility, allowing the corruption to revisit home's hospitality.

Matthew 12:43-45

King James Version (KJV)

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 01:10 PM (MhA4j)

96 Really? We knew Clinton was making promises to Ukraine about having their backs but didn't really mean it? We knew that?
Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:08 PM (IV4od)

It was a non-promise promise. It meant nothing then and it means nothing today. It was no secret. If you did not pay attention to it back then, don't blame me, but what is the difference. It obligated us to nothing then and it obligates us to nothing now. I am not sure what your problem is with that statement. Was Clinton a dick to do it, sure of course he was, so?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:10 PM (t3UFN)

97 Posted by: RWC at March 01, 2014 01:07 PM (MtC8f)

Fake but accurate!

Unfortunately for us, the next round of segregation in this country will be the segregation of conservatives into the re-education camps, a time-honored socialist institutional approach to cleansing the population of "radical" forces.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:10 PM (o3MSL)

98 "fragrantly violated"

I agree, it stinks....

Posted by: notropis at March 01, 2014 01:11 PM (bvlUm)

99 The National Interest ;feb 28th
For those in doubt, suffice to recall President Putin’s statement in 2006 that the collapse of the Soviet Union was “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe” of the twentieth century.

Ukraine firmly anchored in the Western system, on its way towards membership of the EU in due course, or even worse, a member of NATO—these are outcomes he will never tolerate. It would be the final straw in dismantling Russian attempts to extend its influence over the ‘near abroad’—those parts of Central and Eastern Europe that escaped domination by Russia in the aftermath of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Putin has several times invoked Russia’s right to influence, labelling the ‘near abroad’ strategically vital for Russi

Posted by: willow at March 01, 2014 01:11 PM (nqBYe)

100 Putin is acting like Richie Incognito to Obama's Jonathan Martin. One grown man bullying another is as bad as it gets, you have to believe if Obama was white, this would not be happening.

Posted by: Wolf Blitzer at March 01, 2014 01:11 PM (P1WNR)

101 The ruling class of America obviously knew it wasn't a real treaty. And the ruling class of UK and Russia know doubt knew it as well. Probably even the ruling class of the Ukrainians.

Avg people don't know the difference between a security memorandum and a real treaty, of course.

It was probably the best assurance Ukraine could get at the time.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:11 PM (ZPrif)

102 Weak horse, meet the Strong Horse...

Posted by: Bashar al Assad at March 01, 2014 01:11 PM (Q6pxP)

103 I spent years on Free Republic posting standalone articles with links to both Clintons' corruption. It didn't seem to matter to enough people. Ø-Merica's rot has gone on a long time.
Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 01:09 PM (ULH4o)

Yeah I agree. That is what I am saying

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:12 PM (t3UFN)

104
lowandlsow, I don't think so. Look again at the plain language of the memo. This memo and others were all about giving up nukes, and in return being assured that nukes would not be used against you. With the "guarantee" being pretty clearly the squishy variety - consultations, UNSC discussions, blah blah blah.

The "economic coercion" part has actually been violated since the get-go. Unsurprisingly, Russia and Ukraine have wrestled over all sorts of economic matters since 91. With Ukraine doing its best to use its own leverage (geography) on the matters of energy transport. Something of a gray area between business hardball and "economic coercion".

Economic coercion specifically based on gas supplies has been a mainstay of post-Soviet squabbling among the former republics. Russia vs. Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan, Azerbaijan vs. Armenia, Russia vs. Georgia, and others.

Posted by: non-purist at March 01, 2014 01:12 PM (afQnV)

105 Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR
BREAKING NEWS: Shooting has started at the central streets of #Simferopol, #Crimea -5channel |PR News #Ukraine

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:13 PM (ZPrif)

106 I don't know if I'd be so quick to say barky won't use this for some form of confrontation. The opportunity to get some more of our troops killed off and further weakening our military must be mouth watering for him and the female (I think) Iranian ferret.
Put us further in debt, bonus.

Not saying I have any idea how this will all pan out.
Might be time for me to drop a few hundred on long shelf life food though.

Posted by: teej at March 01, 2014 01:13 PM (erYRT)

107 I never actually read The Constitution but I do know the words to The Internationale

Posted by: Barack O'Stalin at March 01, 2014 01:14 PM (Q6pxP)

108 "It meant nothing then and it means nothing today."

Bullshit. Just like every empty threat made by the worthless fuck in office now, everyone of these "promises" we make make with no intention of following through on weakens us in the eyes of the world. The Ukraine people sure as hell think it means something that's why they were the ones that brought it up now.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:15 PM (IV4od)

109 98 "fragrantly violated"

I agree, it stinks....

Posted by: notropis at March 01, 2014 01:11 PM (bvlUm)

#1!

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 01:15 PM (MhA4j)

110 Might be time for me to drop a few hundred on long shelf life food though.
Posted by: teej at March 01, 2014 01:13 PM (erYRT)

They are selling MREs up at West Point for $8 a pop unless you can liberate a few cases for free like someone I know

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:15 PM (t3UFN)

111 Posted by: non-purist

A concise analysis. Thank you. depressing as hell but thank you.

Perhaps if Barry speeds up the givaway on those Western Alaska oil rich American territories the Bear will not kill everyone in Kiev.
Get that noted military hawk Kerry on it.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 01, 2014 01:16 PM (RMaV0)

112 90 -

Funny thing is, it would take some sort of national voice to fight against their characterization of what is happening with these sorts of laws.

We don't have a national voice.

So the left can call it discrimination, segregation, whatever other scare words they choose. No one will speak up, in the political arena, to fight against that.

So they are going to win this one, and it's probably going to help them electorally this fall.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:16 PM (BeSEI)

113 Pipe down Kulaks.

Posted by: Barack O'Stalin at March 01, 2014 01:16 PM (Q6pxP)

114 Look at the story in the WSJ

Mikheil Saakashvili: Lessons From the Putin Wars

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 01:17 PM (OGuBw)

115 Georgia, is not Ukraine, and the Russians had a
tough time taking them down.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 01:00 PM (OGuBw)
No they didn't, the Georgians were routed. And the Russian military has improved since then.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at March 01, 2014 01:17 PM (DPMu1)

116 "The US doesn't fight to win. We shouldn't go to war with anyone. Iraq and Afghanistan are disasters because of our rules. Just like Vietnam."

Just as an observation, this trend started about the same time we traded a "War Department" for a "Department of Defense".

Words have meaning, and words matter.

Posted by: Moron Nursing a mild Knob Creek Hangover at March 01, 2014 01:18 PM (jNNWD)

117 ullshit. Just like every empty threat made by the worthless fuck in office now, everyone of these "promises" we make make with no intention of following through on weakens us in the eyes of the world. The Ukraine people sure as hell think it means something that's why they were the ones that brought it up now.
Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 01:15 PM (IV4od)

Lowandslow I think you should sit down and take a breath. Your arguing with yourself. I was only talking legally that it means nothing. Of course it makes us look like fools and weak for signing such a worthless piece of shit and that sells out our friends, Allies, and freedom loving people all over the world who look to us for leadership. We are on the same page on that one.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:18 PM (t3UFN)

118
On the "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine and the "Rose Revolution" in Georgia, News conference, (23 December 2004).

First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.

Posted by: willow at March 01, 2014 01:20 PM (nqBYe)

119 72
Putin had Obastard figured out the day they did that stupid Overcharge button. How childish that was. He knew then and there that these people were all hat and no cattle, all show and no substance.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 12:56 PM (gorVZ)

Yep. A gazillion Russian linguists in the DC area, plus Google Translate...and they still flocked it up. Probably didn't know the Russians have a different alphabet.

"Cyrillic? Isn't that for fingernails?"

Posted by: baldilocks at March 01, 2014 01:20 PM (36Rjy)

120 Obama Accuses Republicans of Wanting To “Segregate” Gays…

Demonizer-in-Chief.

Via Washington Examiner:

President Obama in a speech on Friday hammered Republicans who oppose gay rights, saying that some of them wanted to “legalize segregation based on sexual orientation.”

“In some states, they’re so far in the past they’re even pushing laws to legalize segregation based on sexual orientation,” said Obama in an address to the Democratic National Convention winter meeting in Washington.

“As Democrats, we’ve let the other side define the word ‘freedom’ for too long,” he added.

As he decimates our Military and writes of The Ukraine, this is what our "President" is worried about? Cock sucking scrunt bastard

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:20 PM (t3UFN)

121 Posted by: Barack O'Stalin at March 01, 2014 01:14 PM (Q6pxP)

Sad to say, I find that statement completely believable.

Barky could have been born in Kansas with hundred's of witnesses present, but it would not change the fact that he was NOT raised as an American citizen.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:21 PM (o3MSL)

122 It meant something. Just not to the level of a mutual defense pact.

That's the gold standard. That's the best you can get. And everyone of America's allies know that. And they know it requires a treaty and ratification of Congress.

Short of that there are various steps and statements and memorandums.

Taiwan probably has the best you can get short of a full mutual defense treaty. Taiwan Relations Act requires US to supply Taiwan with weapons, but doesn't actually guarantee we will fight China on it's behalf. And ever fewer believe we would.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:21 PM (ZPrif)

123 I am in favor of going back to "Department of War."
Squishy language sucketh.

Posted by: votermom at March 01, 2014 01:22 PM (GSIDW)

124 Doesn't matter. Even if the US was totally committed to war by a Senate-passed treaty, President Obama would shrug and ignore it. The entire discussion is irrelevant, with this president in office.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 01:22 PM (zfY+H)

125 Final update, the roofing guys did walk around the house a couple times with magnets, seemed to take their time, hopefully got most of the debris. Not a scrap of paper or shingle anywhere. Foreman has to come back next week to spray paint the vent pipes, filter exhausts, etc. so they "match" the shingles.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 01, 2014 01:22 PM (ZshNr)

126 Shortly I will shove off for Blue Fin Tattoo ( google it ) to have a design I drew over 40 years ago in chopper-ridin' days.

A circle in the background with a cross of Iron laid on its side. Over it? A heart- with wings. I call it "fireheart." In memory of my 2 dead wives I do this thing.

Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 01:23 PM (ULH4o)

127 105 Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR
BREAKING NEWS: Shooting has started at the central streets of #Simferopol, #Crimea -5channel |PR News #Ukraine
---------

Does that mean we can put magazines in our rifles now?

Posted by: Russian Soldier in Crimea at March 01, 2014 01:23 PM (Aif/5)

128 The UN Charter suffices to make Russia's behavior over-the-line here, no Budapest Memo needed. And yes we look feckless and stupid, as we have for years due to the ridiculous condition of our country. But as I pointed out in my first comment, and Drew said, no US president would or could do much to change the outcome here. Nor did our national collapse (effectively) contribute one bit to this dynamic - Moscow and Kiev have been wrestling in the mud since '91, for those who haven't paid attention, with the issues unchanging. And it was Ukrainian moves towards integration with the EU/west that sparked this, it's not some stand-alone initiative by Moscow.

Posted by: non-purist at March 01, 2014 01:23 PM (afQnV)

129 Doesn't matter. Even if the US was totally committed to war by a Senate-passed treaty, President Obama would shrug and ignore it. The entire discussion is irrelevant, with this president in office.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 01:22 PM (zfY+H)

This also

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:23 PM (t3UFN)

130 Look at those crazy Ukrainians bitterly clinging to their freedom and democracy. What they need is a firm hand to guide out of the darkness and into the light and that's what they're getting, in spades.

Posted by: President Obama at March 01, 2014 01:24 PM (P1WNR)

131 At this stage Ukraine and the West are hoping to just keep Russia in the Crima, and not let them take the entire eastern half of Ukraine.

Raymond Pritchett ‏@Galrahn
Keep an eye on Kharkiv. Russian posture suggests this might be about more than Crimea.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:24 PM (ZPrif)

132 Comment 132? That means I can go TOTALLY off-topic.

Question for the horde:

(There is no right or wrong answer. You don't even need necessarily to answer for yourself, but possibly to just address what you think social conservatives as a group might answer. I don't need a big essay -- just a quick sentence or two would be fine. Multiple answers from multiple people are a plus.)

So, what's the question? It is this:

What do social conservatives assume or theorize is the reason for why progressives are so vehemently pro-abortion?

The answer can be emotional, analytical, conspiratorial, whatever you want. Free associate!

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (mizYg)

133 "Look at those crazy Ukrainians bitterly clinging to their freedom and democracy. What they need is a firm hand to guide out of the darkness and into the light and that's what they're getting, in spades."

And so are we.

Posted by: Moron Nursing a mild Knob Creek Hangover at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (jNNWD)

134 If I was a US ally, I would be getting my own shit together. AKA Japan needs to get nukes ASAP.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (0FSuD)

135 TFG has not one foreign policy success. Instead half the world is ablaze, and the forces of evil are on the march. Russia does not much concern me, but China, North Korea and redial Islam sure do. We try to bide for time and run out the clock on these fools, but our enemies are paying attention. The must know that if they all moved at once we do not have enough power to respond outside of our Strategic forces, and dumb-bo would never go their. We must get the Senate and start an impeachment trial or time will run out.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (OGuBw)

136 John Nolte ‏@NolteNC
Oh my. RT @ZekeJMiller: RT @CrowleyTIME: not a character judgment, but this does kind of capture the moment pic.twitter.com/ujj2a799NG

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (ZPrif)

137 Nor did our national collapse (effectively) contribute one bit to this dynamic

Don't totally agree with that. When we withdrew the Missile Shield from Poland with out even discussing it with them to placate Russia, that sure sent Putin and Russia a message about how weak we were goign to be with obama in the White House.

And now would be a good time to re-activate that Missile shield, of course with obama in charge that will never happen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:26 PM (t3UFN)

138 126 In memory of my 2 dead wives I do this thing.

awesome
I hope the artist does it justice

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:26 PM (At8tV)

139 Im curious to see what the emergency NATO meeting results will be as well

Surrender???

Posted by: Paladin at March 01, 2014 01:26 PM (YNPwP)

140 Posted by: baldilocks at March 01, 2014 01:20 PM (36Rjy)

The DoS and the intelligence agencies had hundreds of linguists from the cold war that understood, spoke, and translated every aspect of the Russian language for decades. Unfortunately, they had been supporting the US and were thus unworthy of doing a translation for our new shadow Communist overlords.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:26 PM (o3MSL)

141 Putin had Obastard figured out the day they did that
stupid Overcharge button. How childish that was. He knew then and there
that these people were all hat and no cattle, all show and no
substance.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 12:56 PM (gorVZ)

Actually, Putin saw they were all asshat and no cattle.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM (FMbng)

142 18 I think it was Vic who mentioned this earlier. Why the fuck was Clinton signing this shit in the first place? And why the fuck didn't anyone know about it?

Posted by: lowandslow at March 01, 2014 12:35 PM (IV4od)

I've heard Russian hooks are pretty hot.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM (0FSuD)

143 108 -

What's your point? If you read the thing, it doesn't look like it commits the US to any sort of action.

If that makes us look weak to the rest of the world, maybe that's because we are.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM (BeSEI)

144 “In some states, they’re so far in the past they’re even pushing laws to legalize segregation based on sexual orientation,”

A) I don't even care what this douchebag is referring to. Segregation? Fuckin' shameless liar.

B) Yep, Obama, you just keep telling your black constituency that what they (or, more precisely, their grandparents) was nothing and the real civil rights issue of our time is people who don't want to be forced to participate in a wedding.

Just keep saying it, Obama, the fight for civil rights in the 60s was nothing more than cakes for a wedding.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM (xSegX)

145 Just keep saying it, Obama, the fight for civil rights in the 60s was nothing more than cakes for a wedding.
Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM (xSegX)

I hope he keeps saying because from what I read and know most Blacks are not so pro-gay.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:29 PM (t3UFN)

146 what the hell can the UNSC do?
Russia is a permanent member and can kill any action

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:29 PM (At8tV)

147 Japan is done for, in a demographic death spiral, just a little futher down the road to ecomic oblivion than we are. Hell, the interest payments on their debt (at around 1% or less for the JP 10 yr bond) is over half of all tax revenue. Their debt demoninated in yen went over the *quadrillion* mark (for rough purposes, figure a yen is about a cent, a little more, but roughly).
They are done. We are done, too. Get used to being a former world #1 power now in decline, just like Britain. But unlike Britain, they don't have a "son" (us) with the same values to take up the burden. After America (see Steyn), there is Pooty-Poot and the Chicoms.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at March 01, 2014 01:30 PM (ClQSA)

148 This does not obligate the US because it was signed into law by Bush who lied to the people of Ukraine. President Obama should concentrate on the real threat of Global Warming...........

Posted by: Dorcus Blimeline at March 01, 2014 01:30 PM (iB0Q2)

149 I wonder, was there ever another time in history where a country gobbled up other countries until they were so big that when we inevitably had to fight them, we lost millions of people trying to stop them?

Would we do that again? Wait until Russia has so much territory and just sit back and wait for them to attack us?

Posted by: lifeisdeath at March 01, 2014 01:30 PM (lCbnv)

150 132 -

The left has no moral anchor, so if it suits their needs to kill babies, they will.

Human nature dictates that without a higher source for a moral code, we will behave like savages.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:30 PM (BeSEI)

151 138?
NCJ?

Look at their webpage- they do good work.

Blows a kiss Heavenward....
"You were different as nite and day, my girls.
But you were fine women. I was honored to be your consort for 32 cumulative years...."

Posted by: backhoe at March 01, 2014 01:30 PM (ULH4o)

152
Nevergiveup we are essentially "two bald men fighting over a comb" on this one - yes of course our national collapse in a general way makes everything worse and raises risks all around, but the Ukraine/Russia tussle was in full swing from Clinton through Bush years. I don't think even a Bush (up until his failure of will sometime in 2007) would have made the slightest difference here, if all the other facts were the same.

It's not just an academic point, though it smells like it: shit happens in the world that has nothing to with us, that we cannot stop, or start, or even affect, none of which means having horrendous weak leadership doesn't matter.

Posted by: non-purist at March 01, 2014 01:31 PM (afQnV)

153 Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (mizYg

Answered repeatedly: Eugenics. Abortion is a means by which you can control what the progressives see as the "undesirables."
Convince them children a burden they can't afford, give them an out.

Margret Sanger 101.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 01:31 PM (hq5sb)

154 what the hell can the UNSC do?
Russia is a permanent member and can kill any action
Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:29 PM (At8tV)

I am sure susan rice can come up with something acceptable to the Russians

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:31 PM (t3UFN)

155 Ukraine could be Putin's Afghanistan if we had a president who wanted to make it so.

Unfortunately, North Vietnam's allies have control of the US Federal Government.

.

Posted by: Last Name First at March 01, 2014 01:32 PM (JIbLI)

156 "Hello? Hello? Is Vlad there? Well can you give him a message for me? Hello? You're who? Well captain, can you take a message? This line is bad it sounds like static and laughing. Hello? Yes, corporal? Can you take a mess....Hello? He said what? Are you sure? I'm the President of the United...What? Well, OK, but you tell him we are going to the UN. Hello?"

Posted by: Barry Preezy at March 01, 2014 01:33 PM (WaedO)

157
"Cyrillic? Isn't that for fingernails?"

damn, now I feel stupid, trying to figure out the homophone joke in that one. I finally figured out acrylic. eh, I'm a dude.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 01:33 PM (gorVZ)

158 Time Out!

Posted by: Andy Reid at March 01, 2014 01:33 PM (BAS5M)

159 I used to wonder why there was no mention of America in the list of mighty nations gathered in the last great battles described in the Book of Revelation. I always wondered how, in a huge multinational conflict, America could be absent. How could the strongest nation on earth not be a player?

I'm starting not to wonder anymore.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 01:33 PM (oMKp3)

160 150 132 -

The left has no moral anchor, so if it suits their needs to kill babies, they will.
Posted by: BurtTC

Yes, but in what way does killing babies suit their needs? In their amoral scheme, why abort at all? What is achieved?

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:33 PM (mizYg)

161 What do social conservatives assume or theorize is the reason for why progressives are so vehemently pro-abortion?

It's the elitist in them. They see themselves much as the Nazi's did, as the chosen ones.

The sub classes should not breed. That and overpopulation threatens their positions by putting pressure on them economically.

Margaret Sanger was a racist.

http://tinyurl.com/5cz3ts

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:34 PM (0FSuD)

162 O'Blabbermouth the Progressive in over his head http://tinyurl.com/ldrhabp

Posted by: Regular Guy at March 01, 2014 01:34 PM (N3Al8)

163 151 just checked it
their colorwork just pops

the tribal hummingbird on the bottom of the page is incredible

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:35 PM (At8tV)

164 My father must be rolling over in his grave

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:35 PM (t3UFN)

165 I am sure susan rice can come up with something acceptable to the Russians

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:31 PM (t3UFN)

After first blowing them?

Posted by: KG at March 01, 2014 01:35 PM (IPz9m)

166
No, I will not join the war party.
However, we now see the result of a quarter century of unseriousness in our interactions with the world and ourselves. We'd rather build issue awareness and empower civil society in developing countries than construct bridges or highways. I mean where would all those sociologists find work? We repeatedly tell ourselves that less defense spending will make us more secure--unemployment insurance is a jobs program, too.

ththe benefits

Rus

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 01, 2014 01:35 PM (3o++7)

167 Don't worry, we'll do what we always do. Either make it worse or nothing at all.

Posted by: UN at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (Aif/5)

168 Would we do that again? Wait until Russia has so much territory and just sit back and wait for them to attack us?

Posted by: lifeisdeath at March 01, 2014 01:30 PM (lCbnv)

Russia has natural boundaries: The Atlantic, Pacific, and Arctic Oceans. So no worries mate!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (o3MSL)

169
The answer can be emotional, analytical, conspiratorial, whatever you want. Free associate!

1. Racism
2. Destruction of the family, so the State can be the Daddy.
3. Enviromentalism

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (gorVZ)

170 165 After first blowing them?

You think Susan Rice can compete with Putin's pet gymnast?

Posted by: Anachronda at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (U82Km)

171 Just keep saying it, Obama, the fight for civil rights in the 60s was nothing more than cakes for a wedding.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM

Yes, but they are all "their brother's keepers" now...so saith Choom Boy.

And he's going to piss away at least $200 million in public money to make sure the guilt/Free Shit train keeps puffin' down the track.

Can any sentient being possibly believe that this man has even the smallest fraction of the strength, good sense, judgment and patriotism to be President?

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (ff7/5)

172 146 what the hell can the UNSC do?
Russia is a permanent member and can kill any action

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:29 PM (At8tV)

Saturday afternoon traffic jam at Turtle Bay?

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (0FSuD)

173 158 Time Out! Posted by: Andy Reid

damn, that was a great coffee mix I spewed all over my keyboard

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (At8tV)

174 Answered repeatedly: Eugenics. Abortion is a means by which you can control what the progressives see as the "undesirables."
Convince them children a burden they can't afford, give them an out.

Margret Sanger 101.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!)

You're too smart. That's the real reason, which people here understand to be true. Rather, I was wondering what the rank-and-file social conservative in America, who may likely have never heard the term "eugenics," guesses at what the rationale behind stigma-free abortion could possibly be.

I said there was no wrong or wrong answer, but in this case your answer was TOO right.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (mizYg)

175 We should cause some problems for the Russian Mediterranean fleet supporting Syria. With Putin distracted, and their home port in Crimea in jeopardy, now would be a good time for Turkey and the US to mess with Iran and Asaid. It is in our intreats that Syria keep on killing each other but cutting Iran out would balance the fight out. Let the port of Tartus falling into rebel hands would be helpful.

Posted by: jrcobbstr at March 01, 2014 01:37 PM (OGuBw)

176 160 150 132 -

The left has no moral anchor, so if it suits their needs to kill babies, they will.
Posted by: BurtTC

Yes, but in what way does killing babies suit their needs? In their amoral scheme, why abort at all? What is achieved?

=======

Selfishness. Ruthlessness. Anyone gets in the way of what I want has to go. The undistracted Me.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 01:37 PM (oMKp3)

177 No, I will not join the war party.

In Russian crisis, war party joins you!

Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2014 01:37 PM (xSegX)

178 Any possibility that other nations will trust the US to keep its agreements is vanishing. The results will harm us more than anyone can possibly imagine.

Posted by: Miguel de Cervantes at March 01, 2014 01:37 PM (6zd0p)

179 I wonder what the guys who fought the revolutionary war would think about what our country has become

so Vic...........

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (At8tV)

180 I can see Putin telling Barky, "But first you will blow me." Easy.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (ClQSA)

181 They are selling MREs up at West Point for $8 a pop unless you can liberate a few cases for free like someone I know

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:15 PM (t3UFN)

Ha Ha. I still have a few cases "liberated" from a Katrina aid station. How long ago was that?

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (0FSuD)

182 Abortion is basically part of the relativist, secularist philosophy.

It goes like this: Nothing exists except what we can touch, measure, and sense. There is no afterlife, there is no eternal reward or punishment, there is no absolute, objective standard of right and wrong. All there is, is me, right now. This life is all there is, and good and evil are a matter of personal whim and society's general consensus.

Therefore, the only thing that ultimately matters in life is what makes me happy, comfortable, healthy, and safe. Sex feels good, and while I say that there's nothing beyond this life, deep down something awful and empty is yawning inside me and I long to fill it. Sex makes me forget that for a while, and takes me to a place that is better and more like I know things should be, but aren't.

If sex has any consequences or repercussions, that interferes with my pleasure and fun. Having babies is a consequence of sex that requires responsibility and makes me feel guilty and hesitant when having sex or trying to find someone to have sex with.

Therefore, I want to make sure that will not be an issue, so that I don't feel guilty or worried while having sex, which is for many the ultimate goal in life. The next orgasm, the next hot partner.

So abortion must be protected at all costs, and we'll make up every lunatic and idiotic argument to hide the real reason: because I don't want anything getting between me and my orgasm.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (zfY+H)

183 If that makes us look weak to the rest of the world, maybe that's because we are.
Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:27 PM (BeSEI)

It's true and it fucking sucks. We will survive Obama but people have to suffer while we wait him out.

Posted by: JJ Stone at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (4oSMi)

184 108 lowandslow @1:15

review prior posts and note WHO representing Ukraine signed the BM

the memo was simply a ploy for each participant to wave a piece of paper at home to gain more re-election votes from stoopid people who "survive" on a diet of propaganda sound bites.

The Ukraine government did not sign the BM. A private citizen mechanical engineer without a current public office (he had QUIT office) signed it as if he represented the Ukrainian Government.

This is extraordinary is the ugliest sense. Almost as if the BM proved an international precedence, a model snowball for future political avalanches: non-written and non-debated "comprehensive legislative reform package bills" to be voted upon and signed into law. Ex.: ACA perpetually mutating Obamacare "Law". People think they know what something is, (they know only what they want to believe) yet that something changes substantial content from moment to moment. The only thing we "know" is that such a mutating thing is NOT Constitutional. And double dog damn any SCOTUS which determines that such a mutating piece of "legislation" is Constitutional. And triple dog damn the current body of Congress that doesn't repeal its own abomination. At least have the courtesy of a dog that returns to its vomit. Congress: remove your puke from our midst.

Voters: remove congressional shit from our midst.

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (MhA4j)

185 I disagree that no US president could make a difference. A strong US president could credibly warn Russia of our intent to honor they agreement to its fullest.

Obama can't make that threat because he'd just tell Putin "don't call my bluff, k? “ And Putin would reply" LOL, brb bombin' the Ukraine"

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 01:39 PM (hFL/3)

186 {{{ grammie winger }}} @159

Been thinking of bringing that up myself.
Only possible mention I've seen, "the woman" being flown to safety on the wings of an eagle.

Posted by: teej at March 01, 2014 01:39 PM (6Zy+s)

187 The coup in ukraine was clever.

They violently chase out all the parliamentarians aligned with Yanukovich political parties.

Then they have a vote with the pro-european parliament that remains, to make speaking Russian illegal, to arrest yanukovich and depose him, etc..

They still didn't get the percent required by the constitution to expel him.

Then the right wing figures out that the moderates who dumped democracy are useful idiots, so they will rule by force. The precedent already set that violence wins over democracy.
They trash orthodox churches and jewish synagogues.

Of course the media doesn't report any of this, so people just think russia = bad and protest = good.

Posted by: Village Idiot at March 01, 2014 01:39 PM (utXSy)

188 161 Nip Sip :

Can't slip anything past you people! I need to go ask this question is a less-informed room.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:40 PM (mizYg)

189 176 -

Exactly. Something up to nine more months of freedom to do what I want.

No further justification than that is needed.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:40 PM (BeSEI)

190 Hi teej! Mwah!

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 01:40 PM (oMKp3)

191 There are those who think this Ukrainia thing makes me look like an ass, and there are those who want to blame Bush and I say to them both...

"watch this drive!"

//Bronk O'bama America's Golf Pro and power stroker

Posted by: Sven 10077 at March 01, 2014 01:40 PM (TE35l)

192 We have just found that "Disgusting" Ukrainian video of Putin fucking that donkey on You Tube.

No wonder the Russians are mad.

http://tinyurl.com/n7ujfwu

Posted by: Susan Rice at March 01, 2014 01:41 PM (0FSuD)

193 1. Racism
2. Destruction of the family, so the State can be the Daddy.
3. Enviromentalism
Posted by: Guy Mohawk

Nice! This is the kind of stuff I seek. Perfect. thx.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:41 PM (mizYg)

194 185 Lauren,

and Ogabe would most likely do ElInt for Putin...

it's surreal...

and...I don't give a fuck anymore.

You wanted a weak America America and the world?>

Enjoy

Posted by: Sven 10077 at March 01, 2014 01:42 PM (TE35l)

195 188 -

Personally I think it's a very small subset of the left who thinks that way.

There are the elitists, and then there are the dimwits who follow them.

You can't assume the motives of the former are the same as the latter.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:42 PM (BeSEI)

196 Selfishness. Ruthlessness. Anyone gets in the way of what I want has to go. The undistracted Me.
Posted by: grammie winger

Intriguing! Good.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:42 PM (mizYg)

197 Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (mizYg)

One does not have to have heard the term "eugenics" to articulate the idea that the left is trying to eliminate what they see as "undesirables."

The left wants less poor people, they see poor as a generational thing, so if you end an entire generation of poor people, you'll have no more poor!

Or at least that's what they think.

One that note, I'm about to become a perfect example of why the minimum wage increase is a bad idea.

I'm applying for low wage jobs because: broke.
But I've got a college degree, 5 years fast food experience, 8 months grocery store experience, 2 years staff management experience.

Tell me, whose more likely to get the job at a federally mandated $10.10/hour: me or a high school student who needs skills.

Screw up the labor market enough that I can't find a job commiserate with my skill level and I'll downgrade and push out people who need to learn skills.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 01:43 PM (hq5sb)

198 What do social conservatives assume or theorize is the reason for why progressives are so vehemently pro-abortion?

Progressives sell the idea that children are a burden, not the future. Progressives sell the idea that nothing should restrict an individuals self indulgence. Not responsibility, not the future, not the country or patriotism, or duty to one's parents, or duty to one's employer, or your employer's customers, no law or moral code.

Modern progressives sell the idea that nothing should infringe on one's self indulgence, and they enslave those who buy the idea. What ever the vice, progressives will give it to you in exchange for your loyalty. Whatever you want, progressives will give it to you.

That is why events like Ukraine are dismissed with an imperial wave of the hand. Progressives sell the idea that they will handle life's difficulties. They will take care of all your problems, just be loyal little progressives and do what you are told.

Posted by: Last Name First at March 01, 2014 01:43 PM (JIbLI)

199 195 BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:42 PM (BeSEI)

It's immaterial...

Save freedom horsewhip a "coexist" bumper stickered car driver.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at March 01, 2014 01:44 PM (TE35l)

200 191 Bronk O'bama America's Golf Pro and power stroker

using Obama and power stroker in the same sentence should be a banning

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:44 PM (At8tV)

201 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (zfY+H)

They tried mandatory sterilization, but that got shot down in the 60s and 70s.

And the left really does assume that the poor cannot be trusted to take a pill or use a condom.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 01:44 PM (hq5sb)

202 Abortion?

The dumbest thing about democrat's support?

They are killing there future voting base. Someone did a paper on the 2000 FL voting numbers and figured out the number of Black babies aborted 18-20 years ago.

More than enough to have changed the election.

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:45 PM (0FSuD)

203 182 -

Well-stated, but you obviously have put more thought into this than they have.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:45 PM (BeSEI)

204 180 I can see Putin telling Barky, "But first you will blow me." Easy.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at March 01, 2014 01:38 PM (ClQSA)

Almost.

I can see Obama bowing to Putin, "But first, I will blow you. Then you can reset my asshole."

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 01:45 PM (MhA4j)

205 Zombie

Very abbreviated answer, but ultimately evil always leads to death. What is good and true leads to life.

There is a battle between good and evil. Forces of darkness versus forces of light. Forces of life versus forces of death. Some of it takes place on the physical world.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 01:45 PM (oMKp3)

206 Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:36 PM (mizYg)

Even the semi-sentient liberal can find others to look down upon, and since part of progressive liberalism is managing others live, it is too much like work to take care of the obvious undesirables in our population. Abortion is a nice clean alternative to having all those slugs laying about and creating more slugs.

Besides, what is the possibility of aborting an Einstein or a Tesla born to an inferior class?

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:45 PM (o3MSL)

207 I can see Putin telling Barky, "But first you will blow me." Easy.

"Or I release the videos of you and Rahm at the bath houses."

Posted by: Daybrother at March 01, 2014 01:45 PM (tb1us)

208 Yeah only a very tiny part of the left supports abortion due to eugenics concepts. They might tack environmentalism on as an additional excuse, but ultimately it comes down to just plain empty selfish hedonism. Almost every policy comes down to that, in the end: I want what I want, no matter who else has to pay for it in currency of life or cash.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 01:46 PM (zfY+H)

209 200 navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:44 PM (At8tV)

You notice anytime they meet Putin looks VERY satisfied later?

"yeah"...

YOUR democrat party baby

Posted by: Sven 10077 at March 01, 2014 01:46 PM (TE35l)

210 182 Abortion is basically part of the relativist, secularist philosophy. ...... ..... me and my orgasm.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor

Day-umm! Nothing but net! Impress.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:46 PM (mizYg)

211 Speaking of Revelation,after the Crash of '08, I'm thinking we (NYC, Wall Street in the small, and the whole of the country) is a good candidate for the Babylon (and Whore of same), you know the mighty power that is utterly destroyed ina day, and all the merchants weep...
Our elite have certainly whored themselves out.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at March 01, 2014 01:46 PM (ClQSA)

212 They reason the lefty feminist so strongly support abortion is because theyre idiots who actually believe that choosing to killed their child is empowering.

They people in power support abortion because of eugenics and environmentalism and their own guilt free aborting their way to the top.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 01:46 PM (hFL/3)

213 Breaking: Obama considering raising the level of concern from "Deep Concerned" to "Gravely Concerned", skipping right over "Totes Concerned".

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:47 PM (ZPrif)

214 Posted by: Sven 10077 at March 01, 2014 01:44 PM (TE35l)

Back in form I see!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:47 PM (o3MSL)

215 Fred Thompson is a great guy. Should have been our 2008 Republican nominee.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 01, 2014 01:47 PM (OzZJn)

216 207 I can see Putin telling Barky, "But first you will blow me." and swallow.

FIFY

Posted by: Nip Sip at March 01, 2014 01:47 PM (0FSuD)

217 199 -

I'm not there yet. I might get there, but I haven't reached my personal tipping point.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:48 PM (BeSEI)

218 Obama can't make that threat because he'd just tell
Putin "don't call my bluff, k? “ And Putin would reply" LOL, brb
bombin' the Ukraine"

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 01:39 PM

Teh Poot was quick to react. The fact that some fairly sizable percentage of the Ukraine population was upset with the pro-Russian rulers and got violent gave him a perfect opportunity to sink his claws into a part of the old USSR. All he had to do was make his move, and who can doubt a detailed scenario/battle plan already existed in the Russian military?

He discounted -- and correctly, IMO -- the outcries from Choom Boy and the liberal media who still get all teary-eyed over the "Arab Spring" (which they saw happening again). Neither President Historic First© or Brian Williams have the knowledge or the balls to stand up to a ruler who actually has a spine.

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 01, 2014 01:48 PM (ff7/5)

219 The DoS and the intelligence agencies had hundreds of linguists from the cold war that understood, spoke, and translated every aspect of the Russian language for decades. Unfortunately, they had been supporting the US and were thus unworthy of doing a translation for our new shadow Communist overlords.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:26 PM (o3MSL)

Yep. I used to be one of them, which is how I know. Dozens of my old friends live there. A collective 'WTF' was read on my FB feed after that debacle.

Posted by: baldilocks at March 01, 2014 01:48 PM (36Rjy)

220 I think we should air drop solar panels into northern Ukraine.
Once Ukraine is energy independent, we give Putin a nuggy.

Posted by: Joey Choo-choo, energy planner extraodinary at March 01, 2014 01:49 PM (DPkKe)

221 202 Given open borders, their voting population is multiplying as fast as Tribbles.

Some recent years ago, the census forecasts "Hispanic" majority US population, "Whites" join minority status with "Blacks".

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 01:49 PM (MhA4j)

222 Fred Thompson is a great guy. Should have been our 2008 Republican nominee.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at March 01, 2014 01:47 PM

Have you gotten your Reverse Mortgage from AAG yet?

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 01, 2014 01:49 PM (ff7/5)

223 Posted by: Susan Rice at March 01, 2014 01:41 PM (0FSuD)

Good thing it wasn't a goat or he would have upset the muz!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:49 PM (o3MSL)

224 214 Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 01:47 PM (o3MSL)

My accepting we're fucked and resigning myself to it doesn't mean I will ever be a calm fellow WRT those to blame.

My pulse dropped when I was thinking of pistol whipping the asshole moonbat who works at the clinic with that bumper sticker.

The United States is on top od so much mineral wealth we are NOT ALLOWED to use to refire our economy it is literally making me ill thinking about it.

I hate the fucking left with everything I have.

Posted by: Sven 10077 at March 01, 2014 01:50 PM (TE35l)

225 Eugenics certainly comes into play when a "less than perfect" baby makes it's presence known.

Kill the "defectives".

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 01:50 PM (oMKp3)

226 199 YOUR democrat party baby

WINNING!!

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:51 PM (At8tV)

227
If you read the thing, it doesn't look like it commits the US to any sort of action.
Posted by: BurtTC

Think Drew miight be looking in the wrong place on this*

At Budepest, Clinton spoke of a guarentee of Ukrainian teritorital intergety as being in exchange for their de-nuclearization. It's the text of that agreement, which would include the weapons, benchmarks and such, that would have that "guarentee", if it exists on paper.

But Clinton's intent is clear.

* "That's what SHE said!" *Woooooo* *Audence claps*

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 01, 2014 01:51 PM (kdS6q)

228 225 Kill the "defectives".

coughcoughgreenbaysecondarycoughcough

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:52 PM (At8tV)

229 202 -

No question, abortion kills about 25% of all babies in this country, but in some locations, where one finds high concentrations of Democrat party voters, the numbers are closer to 50%.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:52 PM (BeSEI)

230 198 Posted by: Last Name First:

Thx! Some good stuff here.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:53 PM (mizYg)

231 Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:52 PM (At8tV)

Hey now. It's the start of baseball season. We're friends, remember?

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 01:54 PM (oMKp3)

232 Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 01:46 PM (hFL/3)

This.

Why the left supports abortion is different from what they tell their followers.

The idea is to convince the masses about the individualism aspect, as a way to push your eugenics agenda.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 01:54 PM (hq5sb)

233 Abortion is a great way of making for less tacky people who shop at Wal-Mart. - What the Left is thinking

Posted by: JJ Stone at March 01, 2014 01:54 PM (4oSMi)

234 It will get out of control because there is no believable counter-vailing force to even say "Nyet!" to Russia and that looks credible.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 01:55 PM (MOXtS)

235 Only James Woods can save us now.

Woods/West 2016

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 01, 2014 01:55 PM (2x+V2)

236 205 There is a battle between good and evil. Forces of darkness versus forces of light. Forces of life versus forces of death. Some of it takes place on the physical world.
Posted by: grammie winger

Excellent -- I was looking for some metaphysical analysis like this as well. Thx.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:56 PM (mizYg)

237 231 sorry, force of habit

sooooo, 15-2 loss yesterday?
our season is over in late feb!!!
YAY CUBS

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:56 PM (At8tV)

238 ... Abortion is a nice clean alternative to having all those slugs laying about and creating more slugs. ...

Posted by: Hrothgar

Noted!

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:57 PM (mizYg)

239 236 that was kind of deep for a Saturday morning
impressive

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 01:57 PM (At8tV)

240 hey why don't we ask hillary about the Budapest memorandum?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 01:57 PM (t3UFN)

241 Boy I bet Romney feels stupid about calling Russia a threat to the US. After all, nothing is a threat if you roll over and play dead.

Posted by: bskb at March 01, 2014 01:57 PM (Yfd43)

242 The OT Abortion question, is not actually OT

The American Left is essentially the old CPUSA... (see The Venona Papers)
So all actions are thereby to serve the benefactor of the CPUSA, Soviet Russia

- Stop oil development to slow down the US economy and create an imbalance of trade
- Keep taxes high to drive the 'Arsenal of Democracy', manufacturing overseas
- High regulations and environmental hurdles for the same
- Infiltrate Higher Education (see Yuri Bezmenov) to sow class warfare and weaken education/knowledge base of Americans
- ferment a dread of nuclear warfare among the mis-educated to drive unilateral disarmament
- Denigrate all American global actions, especially when military related
- Abortion to lower the birth rate, especially those of lower economic classes who would be necessary to survive a war of attrition.

Putin, being KGB, knows the long-term Soviet Plan, and feels the US is weakened enough, and he is young enough to capitalize on the opportunity created by the long-term actions of the American Left coupled with the weakened state of the Military following 10+ years of wear-and-tear on its hardware.

Posted by: Colonel Flagg at March 01, 2014 01:57 PM (Q6pxP)

243 John Schindler ‏@20committee
Couple obvious lessons of #Ukraine for Europe: 1. EU is utterly irrelevant outside economics, annoying people, & regulating cheese size...

John Schindler ‏@20committee
2. Germany's unwillingness to act like a major power & scandalous neglect of its military mean in a crisis nobody cares what Berlin thinks..

John Schindler ‏@20committee
3. Getting into NATO is a really, really good idea if you don't want to be pushed around and perhaps brutalized by Moscow ...

John Schindler ‏@20committee
4. Russia remains the Russia of old: insecure, touchy, bullying, double-talking, incapable of showing others respect it demands for itself.

John Schindler ‏@20committee
5. Last, without robust US leadership, NATO itself is growing weak. Current admin has not helped matters esp re Russia. Time to step up now.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 01:58 PM (ZPrif)

244 227 -

In other words, Clinton wanted to give the Ukrainians a guarantee, but it's not on paper anywhere.

It is never ever ever a good idea to think you have Clinton's word on something, when you can't point to the precise place in the document where the commitment exists. They don't call him slick Willie for nothing.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:59 PM (BeSEI)

245 156
"Hello? Hello? Is Vlad there? Well can you give him a message for me?
Hello? You're who? Well captain, can you take a message? This line is
bad it sounds like static and laughing. Hello? Yes, corporal? Can you
take a mess.... Hello? He said what? Are you sure? I'm the President of
the United...What? Well, OK, but you tell him we are going to the UN.
Hello?"

Posted by: Barry Preezy

I told him we already got one **all snicker into their gauntlets**

Posted by: French Knight to his buddies at March 01, 2014 01:59 PM (6TB1Z)

246 212 They reason the lefty feminist so strongly support abortion is because theyre idiots who actually believe that choosing to killed their child is empowering.

They people in power support abortion because of eugenics and environmentalism and their own guilt free aborting their way to the top.
Posted by: Lauren

Looks like "environementalism," "hedonism," and "eugenics" are getting the most votes.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:59 PM (mizYg)

247 Have fun folks, I'm headed to Joel Coliseum to watch some college hoops. Go BC! I'll be the one guy wearing maroon and gold in the whole place, it's happened before. Half the section will look at me whenever Wake does something good.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 01, 2014 02:00 PM (ZshNr)

248 Fred Thompson is a great guy. Should have been our 2008 Republican nominee.

-------------
I always liked Fred also but someone said here recently that he assured Clinton that he would not vote to convict in the Senate during the impeachment. Don't know if that is true or not.
As far as 2008 goes, he was too ill. On his second bone marrow transplant I hear.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 01, 2014 02:00 PM (otKL9)

249 " Eugenics certainly comes into play when a "less than perfect" baby makes it's presence known.

Kill the "defectives"."

Yep. Real life quote said to me by an abortion supporter.

"You were really irresponsible to continue your pregnancy knowing how much your son would cost society."

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:00 PM (hFL/3)

250 Nevergiveup, Hillary's copy of the Budapest memo is mixed in with the missing Rose Law Firm papers. Or buried with Vince Foster. Or Bill used it to try and clean Monica's dress.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:00 PM (MOXtS)

251 We must not have... a head-in-the-sand gap

Posted by: General Barack Obama Turgidson at March 01, 2014 02:01 PM (Q6pxP)

252 publius - re Babylon

It's possible, but I don't think so.
Now forgive me, it's been a long time, but we're talking about a one world govt, ruled by the antichrist, that is the revived Roman empire. I personally think the antichrist will set up his throne in Babylon, for symbolic reasons.

Posted by: teej at March 01, 2014 02:01 PM (SFZtG)

253 They don't call him slick Willie for nothing.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 01:59 PM (BeSEI)

Depends upon what the meaning of "is" is!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 02:01 PM (o3MSL)

254
Bulgaria,Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia were part of or under the influence of the old Soviet empire.
Their now part of the European Union.
Other than asking for the U.S to do something. What's the EU's plan if Putin wants to bring some if not all back under Russian control?

Posted by: YIKES! at March 01, 2014 02:02 PM (mETGQ)

255 okay, time for joe to have a fantasy

newly elected President Palin: look pooty poot, you had your fun but if you keep fucking around i'm gonna put my size 5 stilettos up your creepy uncle boris ass, feel me?

~~~swoon~~~

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:02 PM (At8tV)

256 Zombie, try to get ahold of Bernard Nathanson's book The Hand Of God.

He was one of the original founders of NARAL who later became pro-life.

He talks in depth about all the dirty tricks they used to push abortion.

Everything from demonizing the Catholic Church to making up fake polls and pushing them on the media.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:02 PM (hFL/3)

257 @198

They sell it by claiming self-indulgence is the path to happiness. Faust debuked that a long time ago but nobody reads dead white guys any more.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:03 PM (sOtz/)

258 Why would the Antichrist want to kill the future soldiers of god's last hope for humanity...

Posted by: Nostradamus at March 01, 2014 02:03 PM (Q6pxP)

259 254 What's the EU's plan if Putin wants to bring some if not all back under Russian control?

whimper and cry in the corner?

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:03 PM (At8tV)

260 249 -

Thankfully I have never had anyone say anything like that to me.

I would be in prison for murder.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 02:03 PM (BeSEI)

261 Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:59 PM (mizYg)

========

Also, the left really doesn't believe that we are all created equal with unalienable rights. Look at Obama's statement that he didn't want his girls punished with a baby. That clearly implies he believes his daughters are entitled to the best life possible, to pursue whatever they desire, but another child (the baby) is not.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:04 PM (oMKp3)

262 The EU plan?

Hope the ready brigades that Britain, France, and Germany have loaned it are truly ready and loanable.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:04 PM (MOXtS)

263 Flatbush Joe good points on EU and Germany. Toothless leftists create an economic partnership worthless to face any real challenges or evil. You'd think after the League of Nations and UN they would understand these organizations are worthless in the real world.

"Everything from demonizing the Catholic Church to making up fake polls and pushing them on the media."

No, you can always trust polls, they are 100% accurate and trustworthy, no matter what. Polls are the Word of God and should occupy 75% of blog posts or more during an election.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (zfY+H)

264 Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 02:03 PM (BeSEI)

You wouldn't make it 10 minutes at my annual conference.

Winning quote of 2 years back (the last time I went)

During the lifetime achievement award ceremony: "Here's a list of ethical issues I think we've settled."
On that list "Abortion."

Da Fuq Macklin, what you smoking? Can I have some?

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (hq5sb)

265 @254

Let in more Syrians, Pakistanis, Somalis, etc...

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (sOtz/)

266 Bulgaria,Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia were part of or under the influence of the old Soviet empire.
Their now part of the European Union.
Other than asking for the U.S to do something. What's the EU's plan if Putin wants to bring some if not all back under Russian control?
Posted by: YIKES! at March 01, 2014 02:02 PM (mETGQ)

Was Finland actually part of the old Soviet Empire? I know they were in a funny position, but?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (t3UFN)

267 249 "You were really irresponsible to continue your pregnancy knowing how much your son would cost society."

T would be in prison if someone said that to her when she was preggers

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (At8tV)

268 Abortion? It's a start. Communism can only work with a rapidly decreasing population

Posted by: Joseph Stalin at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (Q6pxP)

269 There are steps we can take short of war. The question is whether our feckless administration has the guts to take them.

Posted by: packsoldier at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (WYFnZ)

270 Posted by: zombie

I believe I remember that at the height of the Soviet times it was estimated that the average Soviet woman had undergone either 7 or 9 abortions in her lifetime. That being the predominate free 'birth control' method.
Interesting if that stat could be found by someone less lazy than me.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (L7KQo)

271 Yes, but in what way does killing babies suit their needs?

What Moloch wants his meat puppets deliver.

Posted by: DaveA at March 01, 2014 02:06 PM (DL2i+)

272 I'm watching the NY Yankees in a Spring Training game and we look like the Tokyo Giants

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:06 PM (t3UFN)

273 Have you gotten your Reverse Mortgage from AAG yet?

Posted by: MrScribbler at March 01, 2014 01:49 PM (ff7/5)

Right. Not there. Not yet.

He is earning an honest living. Not usurping public funding like career politicians who just can't get enough.

Old homeowners without money to pay increased property taxes (and for whatever reason, whose families aren't taking care of senior citizen mom and dad) would do wrong to opt for Reverse Mortgage?

The younger generation wouldn't tend granny. And the younger generation are chaffed not to get granny's house upon her death. They DESERVED her house.

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:06 PM (MhA4j)

274 Lauren, sounds like someone from T4.

Nazi Germany's pogrom to sterilize the mentally handicapped and kill them when no one was looking.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:06 PM (MOXtS)

275 Anyone remember when Obama stole the Deval Patrick speech "Words, just words?" Well the point was that his words were so powerful they would cause a fundamental change in America blah blah blah.

I imagine a meeting Putin's top aids asking what will Obama do if we send in troops to the Ukraine? Putin's response: "Words just words."

Posted by: Locus Ceruleus at March 01, 2014 02:06 PM (yqIMw)

276 Looks like "environementalism," "hedonism," and "eugenics" are getting the most votes.

All I know for certain is that it isn't really about freedom.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 01, 2014 02:07 PM (F85AX)

277 Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:00 PM (hFL/3)

=========

I have been on the receiving end of similar statements. I'm so sorry Lauren.

"The last will be first, and the first will be last."
~ famous Jewish rabbi

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:07 PM (oMKp3)

278 255 -

There's no way she wears a size 5..

And I don't care what your particular kink happens to be, if Sarah wants to give an opponent an incentive to do something, don't have her threat including anything involving penetration of any sort.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 02:07 PM (BeSEI)

279 Citizens In Balaklava Ukraine Use Themselves As Human Shields To Keep Russians Out Of Their City

Weasel Zippers:

Yeah memo to the citizens in Balaklava, these are the Russians we are talking about. I hope you all have life insurance and alot of grave diggers

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (t3UFN)

280 Putin is bullying Obama, you big bullies!!!

Posted by: this is cnn at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (hn5v5)

281 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (zfY+H)

The eugenics wing is subtly shifting practices though and focusing on "LARC" (Long Acting Reversible Contraception.)

They're trying to pull in a segment of the anti-abortion wing buy justifying this move as "less abortions." (I used "anti-abortion" there specifically because such a wing is not "pro-life" exactly.)

It's a really odd attempt. They've been releasing some studies that are methodologically flawed to support this position. But I fear it's gaining ground.

This is also the wing of the left that was behind the contraception mandate. The plan is to remove the cost component and then force doctors to treat IUDs as standard of care for all women.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (hq5sb)

282 Anna Puma,

Yep. I often think of that Nazi propaganda poster that has the man in the wheel chair and says something like "This man costs Germany X amount of money per year. Fellow German, that's your money too!"

There's a reason the disabled were the first to die.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (hFL/3)

283 Finland was allowed to exist as an independent country by the USSR if they stayed neutral. Finland was the first outside place that the MiG-29s of the Soviet Air Force visited.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (MOXtS)

284 Communism can only work with a rapidly decreasing population

Posted by: Joseph Stalin at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (Q6pxP)

au contraire

How did Jackie Chan put it? Really miffed his American fans. Something to the effect that there are so many people in China, they need communism.

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (MhA4j)

285

Barry won't defend his own people, like he's gonna get anywhere near the Ukraine

Posted by: Ambassador Stevens at March 01, 2014 02:09 PM (Q6pxP)

286 okay, as usual the blog's token "D" has the fix to this whole mess

give me 10 CPOs and a MCPO and a shit load of sponges, green weenies, and some mops
we'll fly over there and hold a field day or three
The Russian troops' morale will drop so low they'll flee back across the border

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:09 PM (At8tV)

287
In other words, Clinton wanted to give the Ukrainians a guarantee, but it's not on paper anywhere.
Posted by: BurtTC

No -- didn't say that. Said that these sort of agreements aren't a single document, but rather a set of documents. Think of any major agreement, like buying a house. Stacks of paper.

Of course, international agreements are always a load of whooee, because states are sovereign and you can't enforce jack, unless you send in the Marines.

But to see if there was a "guarantee", you have to check all the paperwork.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 01, 2014 02:09 PM (kdS6q)

288 Obama is Jodie Foster.

Ukraine is the pinball machine.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2014 02:09 PM (xSegX)

289 Prayers Horde, my wife just called relaying a message from my mother that my sister's job out of college just fell through.

Sis now joins me in the "find any job no matter how shitty" line.

But the economy is totes doing better right?!

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:10 PM (hq5sb)

290
280 Putin is bullying Obama, you big bullies!!!

Posted by: this is cnn at March 01, 2014 02:08 PM (hn5v5)

Christie Reporting for Ticket

anti-bully bully

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:11 PM (MhA4j)

291 252: Just read Rev. 18 again. Kings of earth drunk with her wine of fornication. Mechants of all the world made rich by trade with her. And she sits proud, thinking no sorrow will ever come to her. In the same measure she glorified herself, so the measure of her torment will be double. She will be destroyed by fire, laid waste in a day.
Just thing of us, in our heyday, global economic and military superpower. It chills me to the bone. And there's the warning of the call for "my people" to come out of her before the destruction, lest they burn with her.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at March 01, 2014 02:11 PM (ClQSA)

292 278 don't have her threat including anything involving penetration of any sort

good point

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:11 PM (At8tV)

293 Finland kicked Stalin's butt in 1939. Though extremely sympathetic to communism like all of Europe, Finland was never inside the Iron Curtain.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:11 PM (dAyFr)

294 zombie, you ask what the so-cons think the reason is.
Speaking as an aforementioned socon, I agree with some (hi again grammie

) above but with a one word answer.

Sin

"Just as through Adam, sin and death entered the world..."

Posted by: teej at March 01, 2014 02:11 PM (ma+gB)

295 UN Security Council to hold urgent meeting on Ukraine crisis

the Russian rep to the UNSC called and said he was on his way to get a pizza pie and some beer, but feel free to start without him

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:12 PM (t3UFN)

296 Lauren I should amend that as I remember a Nazi propaganda film that seems to be MIA from the Internet. I think the title was Life Without Existence. It talked about how a horrible life all these mentally and physcialy handicapped people were living. That their lives had no value because of it. And flashed on the screen footage of the obviously handicapped. Ended with this gray haired professor type with the Sigmund Freud beard extolling his two Aryan perfect students in the lecture hall that if he was like those poor unfortunates, he would expect them to end his life.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:12 PM (MOXtS)

297 I'm sorry that you've experienced the same thing, Grammie Winger.

How people can be so hateful towards the weakest among us gives me chills.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:12 PM (hFL/3)

298 295 pizza pie

damn new yorkers

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:12 PM (At8tV)

299 Probably been said, but technically no nation is ever under any obligation to do anything. All agreements are but ink on paper. The question is when you blow off obligations other people are counting on, are you ready to deal with the consequences of being known as untrustworthy.

I'm not suggesting we send troops to the Ukraine. Just reflecting that like with the red line in Syria, it is of monumental importance that the President's word mean something.

That point to address this is when we select the man for the office, not when the shit is hitting the fan.

Posted by: Methos at March 01, 2014 02:13 PM (hO9ad)

300 "You were really irresponsible to continue your pregnancy knowing how much your son would cost society."

I haven't heard this personally but it's the vibe I get when I heard about people aborting because the baby would be disabled. My daughter came out at 24 weeks and has hearing-, sight-, and tons more behavioral-issues due to the complications...I still dare anyone to tell me that it's not worth it.

Posted by: JJ Stone at March 01, 2014 02:13 PM (4oSMi)

301 Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:25 PM (mizYg)

The only life they value is their own....and delta smelt.

Posted by: BignJames at March 01, 2014 02:13 PM (j7iSn)

302 OK Tanaka to pitch his first inning in the Majors: Coming up on YES

Hey YES do I get any free tickets for promoting this?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (t3UFN)

303 But people, it was the time of the 'Peace Dividend'

Who would have thought we would ever need all those A6 Intruders that we dumped into the Atlantic to create a reef

Posted by: Bill from Chappaqua at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (Q6pxP)

304 Was Finland actually part of the old Soviet Empire? I know they were in a funny position, but?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:05 PM (t3UFN)

They were kinda in a grey area.
"Neutral" at the suggestion of the Soviet government with all their military equipment being Russia.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (mETGQ)

305 well kids, little miss yoga pants is awake and the kitchen needs serious cleaning
let me go lord over my slave for a while

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (At8tV)

306 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:10 PM (hq5sb)
==========

Prayers it is. We are no stranger to this thriving economy at our house either. Son in law has worked a total of four weeks since August. He's a journeyman electrician. Union, even.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (oMKp3)

307 I read your book mr. Obama. You no magnificent bastard.

Posted by: Tsar Putin at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (Aif/5)

308 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:12 PM (MOXtS)

FWIW, this is why I'm a bit leery about some of the anti-abortion laws that compel various forms of speech.

If we pass a law in NC that compels docs to tell patients XYZ, it'll only be a matter of time until somewhere like CA passes a law that requires docs to tell people pregnant with Downs babies a litany of reasons why they should abort it.

Wield the Leviathan at your own peril, lest it be turned against you at some other time.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:15 PM (hq5sb)

309 Vlad. You read whose book?

Posted by: Bill Ayers at March 01, 2014 02:16 PM (Q6pxP)

310 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:10 PM (hq5sb)

Start Up?

Best wishes for your independent successes.

(I'm late noticing that you've dropped the "candidate" and become a graduate. Good on you.)

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:16 PM (MhA4j)

311 It's annoying that Fox just will not do much news on the weekend. I end up watching jihadi symp Amanpour.
Blech!

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:16 PM (dAyFr)

312 305 little miss yoga pants is awake

oh, and NO PICTURES

weirdos

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:16 PM (At8tV)

313 242 The OT Abortion question, is not actually OT

The American Left is essentially the old CPUSA.....

- Abortion to lower the birth rate, especially those of lower economic classes who would be necessary to survive a war of attrition.

Posted by: Colonel Flagg

Oooh, I like this one.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:17 PM (mizYg)

314 287 -

I see. Then I hope someone is busy looking through the stacks of paper.

Not because it would change anything, more for informational purposes.

Seems like this would be a big freakin' deal though, wouldn't it? You shouldn't exactly hide somewhere in the fine print the part that says we'll commit to defending you, should the Soviets... sorry, Russians, invade.

That sort of thing should be on the front page, in big letters.

Again, slick Willie.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 01, 2014 02:17 PM (BeSEI)

315 Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:14 PM (oMKp3)

So learn a trade isn't working either.

Little Sis may have screwed this up herself. She was waffling on the job location, and may have just not conveyed proper enthusiasm.

Nevertheless I feel bad.

On the upside, I've got a part time job interview. At this point, I'm willing to work retail 20 hours a week, even shitty retail.
Plus if I get axed when the market sours again, I suppose I'll be eligible for unemployment this time (Fuck this noise, everyone else is getting free shit, I should get mine.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:17 PM (hq5sb)

316 watching jihadi symp Amanpour.
Blech!
--------

She's shocked, just shocked! that Russia is ignoring Obama's "direct order" not to intervene.

Posted by: Adam at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (Aif/5)

317 tsrblke, we saw such an egregious law be proposed here in Mississippi. I am pro-life and I read the thing they proposed. It was so loosely worded a doctor could have been convicted of homicide for saving the mother but losing the baby. I voted No.

The voters of Mississippi rejected that at the ballot box.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (MOXtS)

318 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:15 PM (hq5sb)

---------

The thing is, doctors tell you all the horror stories any way to scare you into an abortion because they don't want to be liable for delivering what they call a "bad baby".

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (oMKp3)

319 FoxNews weekend does suck.
Of course, the breaking news weekday team is Action Shep. But at least Action Shep shows up.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (ZPrif)

320 288 Obama is Jodie Foster.
Ukraine is the pinball machine.
Posted by: AmishDude

That point to address this is when we select the man for the office, not when the shit is hitting the fan.
Posted by: Methos

It's almost as if these comments are connected in some vague, insightful, mysterious way.
If only I could...damn. I just don't get it.

Posted by: Daybrother at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (qfkUB)

321 51 45 it's also why anyone who says the Soviets won WWII single handily doesn't know what they're talking about

yeppers
you don't fight Russia in the winter cause you can't bring in fuel, food or ammo

that's what saved Russia's ass
Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 12:47 PM (At8tV)

More specifically, the GMC, 6x6 2 1/2Ton LEND LEASE Truck. Rarely mentioned. The Russians were running logistics with trucks while the German were, primarily, still horse drawn.

Few historians give that the credit it is due.

Professionals study Logistics.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (4mQWw)

322 Amanpour says this in unbelievable! Unbelievable! Russian diplomats said they wouldn't do this!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:19 PM (ZPrif)

323 By what is up on Drudge, I'm not the only one who is sodomizing Barry this weekend.

Posted by: Reggie Love at March 01, 2014 02:19 PM (Q6pxP)

324 256 Zombie, try to get ahold of Bernard Nathanson's book The Hand Of God.

He was one of the original founders of NARAL who later became pro-life.

He talks in depth about all the dirty tricks they used to push abortion.

Everything from demonizing the Catholic Church to making up fake polls and pushing them on the media.

Posted by: Lauren

Actually, I'm looking for enough material to fill one sentence. I just want it to be a really, really accurate sentence.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:19 PM (mizYg)

325 What helped the USSR? GMC, SPAM, and P-39s.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (MOXtS)

326 McDonald's is apparently taking 2 interviews to hire now. Its a buyer's market baby, and they can afford to be picky. Especially with the minimum wage pressure.

Some might take the push for raising the minimum wage in a crushing employment catastrophe evidence of Cloward-Piven deliberate annihilation of the economy. Me, I take it as evidence of how stupid and clueless the people in power are. They really do think this is a good idea.

In the end, which is worse: deliberate, or just too dumb to know better?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (zfY+H)

327 They sell it by claiming self-indulgence is the path to happiness.
Posted by: Beagle

Confirmation of the "hedonism" theorem.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (mizYg)

328 The Interpreter ‏@Interpreter_Mag
Ukraine Liveblog: Lithuania and LAtvia invoke NATO article 4 in response to this crisis http://bit.ly/ONzklc

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (ZPrif)

329 @295 - What was that film where they're having the big meeting and everyone's yelling and brawling and pounding the table and there's one guy sitting there, completely oblivious, filing his fingernails, checking his hair in the mirror, etc?

This time 'round his name's Vitaly Churkin.

Posted by: JEM at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (o+SC1)

330
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (zfY+H)

See post 242

Posted by: phreshone at March 01, 2014 02:21 PM (Q6pxP)

331
Bet if you asked an Obama liv if Uranium is the capital of the Ukraine you'll get at least 95 percent yes.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 01, 2014 02:21 PM (mETGQ)

332 268 Abortion? It's a start. Communism can only work with a rapidly decreasing population
Posted by: Joseph Stalin

"Communist strategy" picking up steam.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:22 PM (mizYg)

333 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (ZPrif)

I don't do twitter anymore, so I really appreciate your updates. Thanks.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:22 PM (oMKp3)

334 I cannot work out how Christiane Amanpour has a career. She was a foreign reporter for NPR back when I was in high school, and she was an idiot then. I mean she was reasonably good at her job in terms of stringing words together and sounding informed but she was so shockingly wrong and tiled against the US in every possible way it was just weird.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (zfY+H)

335 More flexible after the election, huh?

Yup, good thing we pulled our defenses in Eastern Europe and are cutting defense spending to fund moar food stamps and the 404Care debacle.

Oh, BTW- Osama Bin Laden is dead and Al Qaeda is on the run... running to reoccupy Afghanistan and Iraq that is.

And Vlad is now in control of most of Europe's natural gas supply while everyone in Europe is bailing each other out with borrowed money from China.

Yup. This will end well. Thanks 52%!

Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (j0wOO)

336 Russia will never invade Ukraine. Obama would not allow it.

Posted by: this is c. amanpour at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (hn5v5)

337 @316

I feel awkward watching the Left get mad at Russia. Like a married couple fighting at a cocktail party.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (dAyFr)

338 Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:16 PM (MhA4j)

Did I leave a typo somewhere? I'm only 154 words into my dissertation, a long way from graduating.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (hq5sb)

339 132 Zombie

Destruction of the family. Primacy of the state.

Posted by: Derak at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (xEkHi)

340 I still remember a German tour guide telling us USAFE who were playing tourist on a Rhine river cruise why the German birthrate had become so low. Because raising kids are too expensive she said.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (MOXtS)

341 @328 - yeah, I can imagine they're looking at the menu and seeing 'Georgia' and 'Ukraine' under appetizer and 'Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Czech, Slovakia' on the main course.

Posted by: JEM at March 01, 2014 02:24 PM (o+SC1)

342 Amanpour demanded a face to face live interview with Egyptian President Mubarak, who graciously consented.

Feb 3 2011
http://tinyurl.com/5te76xb

Mubarak said he was indeed preparing to retire soon, but if he resigned at that moment, Egypt would devolve into chaos, and that the Muslim Brotherhood would take over the nation.

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:24 PM (MhA4j)

343 oh, and NO PICTURES

weirdos

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 01, 2014 02:16 PM (At8tV)

Why would we want to see some scrawny teenager in yoga pants?

Now T, on the other hand...

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 01, 2014 02:25 PM (lr3d7)

344 I think we will all need to see this glorious sentence, zombie!

"The thing is, doctors tell you all the horror stories any way to scare you into an abortion because they don't want to be liable for delivering what they call a "bad baby". "

Yep. I'm a member of a group for women who have has their water break early in pregnancy. The prognosis isn't exactly rosy, but doctors are absolutely awful to women in this situation. The saddest part of the group are women who found it *after* their doctors told them there was no hope and they consented to an early delivery.

They come in and see all the stories of women remaining pregnant for weeks or months after the rupture and are furious that their doctors never even gave them the option to try.

Of course on the other hand, some doctors are now being sued for "wrongful birth" which is just about the most disgustuing thing I've ever heard.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:25 PM (hFL/3)

345 Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (oMKp3)

Yes, but I can fight back against that Doctor in the marketplace of ideas.

Push people not to go to him, etc. etc.

Imagine a world where even pro-life doctors are required by law to recommend abortion and tell you why.
We are not far from that world.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:25 PM (hq5sb)

346 That would make a good image:

Top panel: Obama picture with gloating grin "I can be more flexible after the election."

Bottom panel: Picture of Russian military pouring into Ukraine, with one word: "Understood."

Calling Slublog, because I'm too lazy.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 02:25 PM (zfY+H)

347 212 They reason the lefty feminist so strongly support abortion is because theyre idiots who actually believe that choosing to killed their child is empowering.
Posted by: Lauren

-------------

I watchedwith shame as my ----- relation built a career heading a group called Exhale: a group that promotes "honest and open discussion of the grief felt post-abortion" Not regret mind you, but painful emotions. She wrote two articles in the New York Times about her abortion experience, one of which included her complaint that pro-life groups were attempting to "use her as a poster girl" (oh the irony that she became one for abortion rights).

What struck me most was her description of meeting her old boyfriend who had a new baby, and was in financial and personal trouble. She wrote of her relief that she had decided to abort her baby and escaped such an unpleasant life with him. Leaving aside the fact that her family is wealthy and would never have abandoned her or her baby to the horrors of living in a dumpy apartment; what hits you was her focus on her personal comfort, rather that ending the life of that baby.

Posted by: Miguel de Cervantes at March 01, 2014 02:26 PM (6zd0p)

348 Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania gladly welcomed the Germans because it rescued them from the Soviet tyranny they had been suffering since Moscow annexed them and no one in the West had lifted a finger.

They see a history deja vu.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:26 PM (MOXtS)

349 @328 - Russia's already dished up a nice spread of 'Stans for an amuse-bouche.

Posted by: JEM at March 01, 2014 02:27 PM (o+SC1)

350 Someone should just find some clips of the response to Sarah Palin's Russia comment back in '08, and Obama's response to Romney in '12, and interweave them with news reports on the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 01, 2014 02:27 PM (lr3d7)

351 P-39s.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:20 PM (MOXtS)

P-39/63s excelled at that low altitude TacAir stuff. The Russians loved 'em. The IL-2 gets all the credit and, to a certain extent, warranted.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 01, 2014 02:27 PM (4mQWw)

352 294 zombie, you ask what the so-cons think the reason is.
Speaking as an aforementioned socon, I agree with some (hi again grammie ) above but with a one word answer.

Sin

"Just as through Adam, sin and death entered the world..."
Posted by: tee

Now THAT's concise! Thx.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:27 PM (mizYg)

353 If we could go back in time and not help Greater Albanian irredentists sever Serbians from their ancestral homeland it might be possible to talk to Russians and have them listen.

At the time I told anyone I could Russia would be pissed for centuries.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:28 PM (dAyFr)

354 Lauren, of course they will sue for 'wrongful birth,' there is a cash incentive and helps absolve them of any blame.

One simple change in the law would eliminate so many lawsuits - loser pays everything.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:28 PM (MOXtS)

355 Abortion is also so popular *gag* because it plays on womens' fear.

The women who are actually having abortion, aside from the Sisterhood of the Suction Curette who see it as a form of worship, are women who are in bad relationships or are young or are poor or whatever other situation society has deemed 'not fit to parent."

So they run to the clinic to erase their fear. It doesn't work, of course. They just replace fear with guilt, but there's a reason pro-lifers refer to these as "crisis pregnancies."

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:29 PM (hFL/3)

356 I can't reply to every single abortion-related comment, but this is a blanket "thanks" to everyone, and to reassure that every comment is being read and noted.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:29 PM (mizYg)

357 Because raising kids are too expensive she said.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:23 PM (MOXtS)

Given certain exceptions to the rule, that's the general opinion around the world.

It IS expensive to have and to raise children responsibly. "Too" expensive? That clarifies what matters most where applicable.

And for those who would rather not make the personal sacrifices required to provide the best possible advantages for the next generation's development, the solution is simply to not have the next generation. Certainly not on one's own dime!

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:29 PM (MhA4j)

358 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:28 PM (MOXtS)

That'd be great, but didn't they win the wrongful birth suit?

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:29 PM (hq5sb)

359 This is not about Ukraine. This is about us.

And Putin knows it. The world knows it.

The United States of America cannot be trusted. End of this story, and end of a lot of other things, too.

Posted by: Kirk at March 01, 2014 02:30 PM (GBnWt)

360 350 Someone should just find some clips of the response to Sarah Palin's Russia comment back in '08, and Obama's response to Romney in '12, and interweave them with news reports on the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 01, 2014 02:27 PM (lr3d7)

^^^THIS^^^

Posted by: Havedash at March 01, 2014 02:30 PM (G1XMn)

361 If I had listened to my doctor, I might not have my daughter today, and I most certainly would not have my son. I would be childless.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:31 PM (oMKp3)

362 >>>There are steps we can take short of war. The question is whether our feckless administration has the guts to take them.<<<

Barry went for Laddie's head fake and then what? Uchi mata.

And happy hour, wingnuts.

Posted by: Fritz at March 01, 2014 02:31 PM (PnMCP)

363 Of course as soon as our tour guide said that, I saw on the walkplatz a nice young German couple pushing a pram with three kids in it.

tsrblke? Huh?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:32 PM (MOXtS)

364 359. Careful.

"Me, me, it's all about me!"

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 02:32 PM (MhA4j)

365 New US flag released.

http://tinyurl.com/mmqgo3b

Posted by: RWC at March 01, 2014 02:32 PM (MtC8f)

366 Sure wishing I'd kept that long study I did 20 years ago now publius.
Prompted by a couple of cassettes on 1st and 2nd Thessalonians by Marv Rosenthal.
A view I'd long held went buh-bye.
Check out Zion's Hope Inc in Orlando. Great resourse.

Posted by: teej at March 01, 2014 02:32 PM (J3IzX)

367 339 132 Zombie

Destruction of the family. Primacy of the state.
Posted by: Derak

Bingo.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:33 PM (mizYg)

368 (Fuck this noise, everyone else is getting free shit, I should get mine.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) (No Really!) at March 01, 2014 02:17 PM (hq5sb)

You won't hear me criticizing you. We all have to do what we can to take care of ourselves and our own, given how badly Obama is destroying our country.

Posted by: KG at March 01, 2014 02:34 PM (IPz9m)

369 344 I think we will all need to see this glorious sentence, zombie!
Lauren

You will, you will.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 02:34 PM (mizYg)

370 Miguel de Cervantes,

Very interesting. I always found Exhale to be a somewhat perplexing, and really very sad, group. I do hope that your family member has found peace.

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:34 PM (hFL/3)

371 Lend-Lease to the USSR:
4,000+ P-39 Airacobras.
1,000+ P-69 Kingcobras
700 B-25 Mitchells
Unk # P-40s.

And the RAF even sent them 6 Mustang Mk Is that the Finns said they fought.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:35 PM (MOXtS)

372 If we could go back in time and not help Greater
Albanian irredentists sever Serbians from their ancestral homeland it
might be possible to talk to Russians and have them listen.

At the time I told anyone I could Russia would be pissed for centuries.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:28 PM (dAyFr)

Pfft. You're failing to take into account all the goodwill we earned with the muslim world by coming to the aid of their brethren against the Serbs.

Posted by: Methos (/sarc, obviously) at March 01, 2014 02:37 PM (hO9ad)

373 See in the side-bar, Uighar Muslims attack a train station in Kumming China. Someone check on those Uighars the US released.

Kumming, the WWII capital of China and main base for the AVG, CATF, and later 14th Air Force.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:37 PM (MOXtS)

374 350 Someone should just find some clips of the response to Sarah Palin's Russia comment back in '08, and Obama's response to Romney in '12, and interweave them with news reports on the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at March 01, 2014 02:27 PM (lr3d7)

And then send them to the Democrat controlled media who will put them in the trash can instead of showing the country the truth.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 01, 2014 02:38 PM (bb5+k)

375 Just wanted to add a voice of mercy. Not all women have an abortion because they choose it. Sometimes it is forced upon them by another person. I certainly don't want to be an accusatory voice to these women.

And many many women find grace and mercy and forgiveness after an abortion as well, even when it was their choice. There is healing available.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:39 PM (oMKp3)

376 KyivPost ‏@KyivPost
#Ukraine PM @Yatsenyuk_AP: Military intervention is unacceptable. Ukraine is ready to defend its sovereignty.
pic.twitter.com/s0T4KxYCqu

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:39 PM (ZPrif)

377 Kevin Bishop ‏@bishopk
Acting President Olexander Turchynov orders full combat alert of armed forces. In #ukraine

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:40 PM (ZPrif)

378 Teej

I just looked at the article from Zion's Hope on Christian suffering. I lot of solid stuff there:

http://www.zionshope.org/index.aspx

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2014 02:40 PM (XyM/Y)

379 New US flag released.>>

To be more accurate they need to change the pen to a pot pipe.

Posted by: The Hickster at March 01, 2014 02:40 PM (TI3xG)

380 >>what hits you was her focus on her personal comfort,

Yeh. It's that whole "I want to do what I want without consequences and without you judging me but I want to yell about it so you notice me and judge me so I can feel different and special just like all my friends".

My head hurts after writing that.

Posted by: Mama AJ at March 01, 2014 02:41 PM (SUKHu)

381 "A" lot.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2014 02:42 PM (XyM/Y)

382 >>>>personal comfort

That is the nub of it.
Pregnant and in school? It would be tough to finish. Better to abort.
Pregnant and alone? It would be tough to let the baby go to adoption or go it alone.
Better to abort.
Pregnant and the baby might be embarrassingly less than perfect? Better to abort.

Otherwise you might have to show some character, nut up and act like an adult.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 01, 2014 02:42 PM (IVgIK)

383 Svoboda is a Ukrainian nationalist political party
Svoboada means Freedom

John Schindler ‏@20committee
BREAKING: "This is war!"-Svoboda calls for mass mobilization to defend #Ukraine from "KGB maniac Putin," compares him to Hitler - Interfax

John Schindler ‏@20committee
Svoboda calls for martial law: "We will not cede a single plot of Ukrainian land to the invaders. We shall win! Glory to Ukraine!"

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 01, 2014 02:43 PM (ZPrif)

384 The United States of America cannot be trusted. End of this story, and end of a lot of other things, too.

The end was Nov 2008 and was confirmed in 2012. People other than us are figuring it out now.

Say I have a question for anyone pointing out that Russia has a shitty military aside from the nukes. What exactly is preventing Putin from using a nuke here or there as 'supplemental artillery'? I think Obama would do nothing for mostly the same reasons he's not going to do anything about Ukraine. And it's not like Europe is going to boycot Gazprom.

Posted by: Methos at March 01, 2014 02:43 PM (hO9ad)

385 @344 Of course on the other hand, some doctors are now being sued for "wrongful birth" which is just about the most disgustuing thing I've ever heard.
-------------------

"Wrongful Birth" has been around for a while. iirc, the first case was in the '70s. Though I suspect it's been used a lot more in recent years than it was even ten years ago.

Posted by: junior at March 01, 2014 02:43 PM (fsOaN)

386 What is even worse are the young girls in school who carry to term because they believe they will then have someone who will love them. Their baby.

And what has been almost obliterated from the landscape is the concept of adoption.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:44 PM (MOXtS)

387 Abortion removes a future that may include the end of a career pursuit, public shaming ( which still exists), lowered income, limitations on potential romances or life partners, and limitations on socializing. In short, there is a huge price package for women having children out of wedlock; especially when young and uneducated.

It's one reason why feminist women get so emotional when men who don't face this results, give criticism. They aren't the ones faced with the price package. Women and girls do suffer for have out of wedlock children.

But they also know the joy of children and escape the years of torment and grief women experience from abortions.

I don't believe abortion is right, but I do comprehend that women experience fears of a terrible future.

I've got to dash. Later all

Posted by: Miguel de Cervantes at March 01, 2014 02:44 PM (6zd0p)

388
The women who are actually having abortion, aside from the Sisterhood of the Suction Curette who see it as a form of worship,

Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2014 02:29 PM (hFL/3)

Those worshipers of abortion of which you speak are motivated by the same emotion which motivates the gaystapo. (Militant Homosexuals.)

The KNOW that what they are doing is abnormal and wrong, but they don't want to change their behavior. Therefore they try to convince themselves that what they are doing isn't wrong, by going full tilt with it.

It is rationalization/affirmation of bad conduct by zealously engaging in it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 01, 2014 02:46 PM (bb5+k)

389 What exactly is preventing Putin from using a nuke here or there as 'supplemental artillery'? I think Obama would do nothing for mostly the same reasons he's not going to do anything about Ukraine. And it's not like Europe is going to boycot Gazprom.
Posted by: Methos at March 01, 2014 02:43 PM (hO9ad)

Because Putin isn't crazy. And he does not have to use Nukes.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:46 PM (t3UFN)

390 Say I have a question for anyone pointing out that Russia has a shitty military aside from the nukes. What exactly is preventing Putin from using a nuke here or there as 'supplemental artillery'? I think Obama would do nothing for mostly the same reasons he's not going to do anything about Ukraine. And it's not like Europe is going to boycot Gazprom.
Posted by: Methos at March 01, 2014 02:43 PM (hO9ad)

....and he would take one of the Lefts' biggest hammers against the US out of their hands. Besides, he doesn't need to.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 01, 2014 02:47 PM (4mQWw)

391 Lend-Lease to the USSR:
4,000+ P-39 Airacobras.
1,000+ P-69 Kingcobras
700 B-25 Mitchells
Unk # P-40s.

And the RAF even sent them 6 Mustang Mk Is that the Finns said they fought.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:35 PM (MOXtS)

Including Sherman tanks, halftracks and jeeps and trucks.
Quite a few US deuce and half were converted into Katyusha rocket launchers.

Posted by: YIKES! at March 01, 2014 02:47 PM (mETGQ)

392 I don't think all women who have abortions have the attitude that they want what they want when they want it. I knew someone who had an abortion years ago who was in severe depression and found herself pregnant at 43, whose family was in terrible financial straits and who had already given birth to a disabled child. At that point she said she couldn't have taken any more. I didn't judge her or condemn her.. The act was already done. She had come to the point that she felt that what she had done was wrong, confessed her sin and had received healing and forgiveness and I was glad of that.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 01, 2014 02:47 PM (XyM/Y)

393 Not obligated, but we are already hip-deep in the Ukraine. We played a behind the scenes role in fomenting the Maidan protests and the Russians are doing blowback, basically.

Remember the Vickie Nuland "Fuck the EU" phone call? What were they discussing?

Posted by: Bigby's Waving Hands at March 01, 2014 02:48 PM (KgN8K)

394 Lend-Lease to the USSR:
4,000+ P-39 Airacobras.
1,000+ P-69 Kingcobras
700 B-25 Mitchells
Unk # P-40s.

And the RAF even sent them 6 Mustang Mk Is that the Finns said they fought.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:35 PM (MOXtS)

We also sent them 2 or 3 B-29s, although that was less lend-lease than land-steal

Posted by: Nevergiveup at March 01, 2014 02:48 PM (t3UFN)

395 Yeesh.

Fuck Hollywood. Seriously.

I was waiting around killing time before I went to the new Liam Neeson movie, "Non-Stop' when I saw this-

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-

Hollywood/2014/02/28/non-stop-review-neeson-

thriller-new-left-wing-low

Read the article s-o-o-o-o-o now no "NonStop" for me.

Do Not Read the article if you wish to go as it contains spoilers.

But, I'm glad I read it before I paid good money to see that crap.

One more time with feeling...Fuck Hollywood.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 01, 2014 02:49 PM (KBvAm)

396 Last week at this time Russia was celebrating the Olympics. Weird.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 01, 2014 02:49 PM (oMKp3)

397 >>>'s one reason why feminist women get so emotional when men who don't
face this results, give criticism. They aren't the ones faced with the
price package. Women and girls do suffer for have out of wedlock
children.

I feel a disturbance in the force. As if all the financial crippled baby daddy's in the country suddenly cried out in pain.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at March 01, 2014 02:49 PM (IVgIK)

398 Nood

Posted by: Y-not at March 01, 2014 02:49 PM (zDsvJ)

399 The three B-29s landed in neutral USSR. Just like York's B-25 after the Doolittle raid. So the crews were interred and the planes, well became the property of the neutral power.

Portugal gained a whole squadron of P-39s that landed due to mechanical issues. Sweden after WWII sold to the Dominican Republic 42 P-51Ds that had been interred. IIRC the B-17G Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby also landed in Sweden after suffering damage, this B-17G is now the only existing flyable B-17G with a proven combat record.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:52 PM (MOXtS)

400 It's not like, ummmmmmmmm an invasion invasion.

Posted by: Balack Obama at March 01, 2014 02:53 PM (jucos)

401 Finally started True Detective. Matthew Mc...ah.. that guy is incredible in it. I can't DVR and watch them fast enough.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:53 PM (dAyFr)

402 I vote no.

Posted by: tubal at March 01, 2014 02:54 PM (YEQ2h)

403 So a neo-Nazi party dedicated to nostalgia for Hitler times calls Putin Hitler? Irony is grand in Ukraine.

Posted by: Aristotle at March 01, 2014 02:54 PM (UTwCK)

404 Shouldn't it be Ukrania?

Serious, you guys.

Posted by: Teddy's Ghost at March 01, 2014 02:57 PM (xgirU)

405 Putin has not needed bullets yet. Nukes would be cray-cray.

Posted by: Beagle at March 01, 2014 02:58 PM (dAyFr)

406
One more time with feeling...Fuck Hollywood.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 01, 2014 02:49 PM (KBvAm)

I read the synopsis. What many of us don't appear to understand is that the left moves the nation's opinion with propaganda like this.

Many of the low information voters are simply too ignorant and unintelligent to recognize a lot of entertainment as the propaganda that it is.

The movie "One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest" is said to have been the cause for destroying the use of involuntary commitment to put crazy people in asylums.

It also ended up triggering cuts to the funding for involuntary commitment facilities around the nation.

This is how we ended up with so many crazies on the street during the Reagan years, and regarding which the media talked incessantly at the time.

Their argument? It was Reagan's budget cuts which caused this, not Congress' refusal to fund those mental health programs due to blowback from a movie.

The movie "I Want to Live" supposedly spurred the movement to abolish the death penalty.

This shit has been going on a long time, and something needs to be done about it.

Posted by: D-Lamp at March 01, 2014 02:59 PM (bb5+k)

407 Bulgaria,Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Lithuania, Slovakia and Slovenia were part of or under the influence of the old Soviet empire.
Their now part of the European Union.
Other than asking for the U.S to do something. What's the EU's plan if Putin wants to bring some if not all back under Russian control?
------------------------

The odd duck, and the one that you left out, is Romania. It's not part of the traditional Russian sphere, but...

1.) Russia sees itself as the traditional protectors of the Slavs. Romania is the only big country in the region that's not Slavic. So Russian paranoia means that Romania is a threat.

2.) Unlike in most of the neighboring countries, Romanian is a Romance language, increasing its ties with the West.

3.) Romania shares a border with Ukraine, which has been a part of Moscow's holdings for long enough that the vast majority of Russians pretty much view it as a part of Russia. And Russian paranoia regarding international relations means that you always have to have buffer puppet states between your own territory and everyone else. And since Ukraine is seen by most Russians as a part of Russia (despite what a majority of the current Ukrainians believe)...

Yeah.

Finally, there's the Black Sea. Romania is quite capable of maintaining a decently-sized fleet in the Black Sea, and did so during World War 2. Russia sees the Black Sea as essentially Russian territory. Russia would also like to get its hands on the Bosporous, so that it can run ships out of the Black Sea and into international waters. And although taking the straits from Turkey would be considered a long-term goal, going through Romania is pretty much the direct route.

So while most of the attention is focused on north-eastern Europe, don't forget to keep an eye on what's going on in Bucharest. That's probably just as important and just as telling.

Posted by: junior at March 01, 2014 03:01 PM (fsOaN)

408 348 Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania gladly welcomed the Germans because it rescued them from the Soviet tyranny they had been suffering since Moscow annexed them and no one in the West had lifted a finger.

They see a history deja vu.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 01, 2014 02:26 PM (MOXtS)

Right, former relations come round again, common histories, under whose influence did Eastern European identities fare better? Long haul over long ties.

Austro-Hungarian Empire prior to WWI engagement
http://tinyurl.com/n9pjalh

Maria Theresa of the Austro-Hungarian Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa#Reforms

Economic promotion of commerce and agriculture
Medicine and Hygiene
Civil Rights
Church
Education

Maria Theresa and her husband, Francis I, Holy Roman Emperor, had sixteen children. She described her state of mind shortly after Francis's death: "I hardly know myself now, for I have become like an animal with no true life or reasoning power." 18 August 1765

Her title after the death of her husband was:
Maria Theresa, by the Grace of God, Dowager Empress of the Romans, Queen of Hungary, of Bohemia, of Dalmatia, of Croatia, of Slavonia, of Galicia, of Lodomeria, etc.; Archduchess of Austria; Duchess of Burgundy, of Styria, of Carinthia and of Carniola; Grand Princess of Transylvania; Margravine of Moravia; Duchess of Brabant, of Limburg, of Luxemburg, of Guelders, of Württemberg, of Upper and Lower Silesia, of Milan, of Mantua, of Parma, of Piacenza, of Guastalla, of Auschwitz and of Zator; Princess of Swabia; Princely Countess of Habsburg, of Flanders, of Tyrol, of Hainault, of Kyburg, of Gorizia and of Gradisca; Margravine of Burgau, of Upper and Lower Lusatia; Countess of Namur; Lady of the Wendish Mark and of Mechlin; Dowager Duchess of Lorraine and Bar, Dowager Grand Duchess of Tuscany.

Joseph and Prince Kaunitz arranged the First Partition of Poland despite Maria Theresa's protestations. Her sense of justice pushed her to reject the idea of partition, which would hurt the Polish people. The duo argued that it was too late to abort now. Besides, Maria Theresa herself agreed with the partition when she realised that Frederick II of Prussia and Catherine II of Russia would do it with or without Austrian participation. Maria Theresa claimed and eventually took Galicia and Lodomeria, a province claimed by Hungarian monarchs since the 13th century; in the words of Frederick, "the more she cried, the more she took".

Posted by: panzernashorn at March 01, 2014 03:02 PM (MhA4j)

409 @393 Remember the Vickie Nuland "Fuck the EU" phone call? What were they discussing?
-----------------------

I believe they were discussing how utterly and completely ineffective the EU's response to the whole Ukrainian mess had been.

Given that it's the ambassador from the US calling someone else ineffective, that's saying something...

Posted by: junior at March 01, 2014 03:04 PM (fsOaN)

410 @406 - The move to constrain involuntary commitment to mental hospitals started - indeed in California it was largely complete, during Reagan's term as Governor - long before the movie 'One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest' ever got made.

This argument's a little like the historical relationship between CO2 levels and temperature - yeah, there's a correlation, but it's the other way 'round, CO2 increases lag temperature changes.

Posted by: JEM at March 01, 2014 03:05 PM (o+SC1)

411 @399 Portugal gained a whole squadron of P-39s that landed due to mechanical issues. Sweden after WWII sold to the Dominican Republic 42 P-51Ds that had been interred. IIRC the B-17G Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby also landed in Sweden after suffering damage, this B-17G is now the only existing flyable B-17G with a proven combat record.
---------------------

I read once about a German fighter with an experimental radar system that accidentally landed in Switzerland. The Germans promised the Swiss an entire squadron of a dozen fighters if the Swiss kept anyone from looking at the plane. After the plane mysteriously caught fire and burned, the Germans upheld their promise and handed over the planes. And those planes were later used to shoot down a group of German fighters that later accidentally strayed into Swiss territory and refused to surrender.

Posted by: junior at March 01, 2014 03:09 PM (fsOaN)

412 Ukraine was ripe for being split off from the USSR in 1941. The western third of the USSR would have been happy to be freed from Stalin's kind embrace by the Germans.

But Hitler was a little too full of himself.

Posted by: JEM at March 01, 2014 03:09 PM (o+SC1)

413 "It IS expensive to have and to raise children responsibly. "Too" expensive? That clarifies what matters most where applicable."

Too Expensive is usually a euphemism for "I'd have to pay attention to someone other than me."

Ultimately there's a huge distinction between why an individual woman might get an abortion and why the left is so rabidly pro-abortion. The motivations are different, and the analysis offered here is not criticism of women who have done this, but of the left who is so full in on abortion they celebrate it with gift cards and rallies.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 03:10 PM (zfY+H)

414 246
Looks like "environmentalism," "hedonism," and "eugenics" are getting the most votes.
Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 01:59 PM (mizYg)
----------------------
Don't forget the libido dominandi, power for the sake of power itself, in this case the power of life and death.

If I, as a doctor, suck the brains out of a partially delivered baby and crush its skull, my act is legal and righteous if the woman (actually the state) says the child is unwanted. If, OTOH, the child is wanted, I do life without parole. The value of a human life may be nothing or may be priceless, but it is solely determined by power.

Also, consider the lure of transgression for the sake of transgression. I have it on very good authority that there are SOME people involved in the abortion industry who actually ENJOY that they are doing evil.
A sort of Nietzschean transvaluation of values, the triumph of the will over conscience, stimulates them.

Read accounts of the Nazi camps, read accounts of Kermit Gosnell and other abortionists, especially the late-term ones. You will see that among the soul-deadened, "banal" malefactors there are some who love evil precisely because it is evil, not just because it is "useful."
The Christian would call this satanic, but one does not have to believe in God or Satan to understand that (for some) there is a dimension beyond utilitarianism, a war against Conscience itself, a rebellion against objective value.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 01, 2014 03:11 PM (dfYL9)

415 "I read once about a German fighter with an experimental radar system that accidentally landed in Switzerland."

The funny thing is, the English and Americans had better radar than the Germans, so it was all pointless.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 03:12 PM (zfY+H)

416 So...we pissed in Russia's Wheaties...and we're all surprised that the Russians didn't like it.

We're also believing the MSM and defending Obama's 'smart diplomacy', all at the same time. Since when can we trust either of them? (The MSM and Obama are telling you that the Russians are the bad guys, here.)

If you think that this is just about Ukraine and Crimea, you're wrong. ...or at best, nor completely informed, shall we say.

Dig a little deeper and don't accept what anyone from either side of the ideological divide is telling you...about anything.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at March 01, 2014 03:14 PM (klGLB)

417 @415 The funny thing is, the English and Americans had better radar than the Germans, so it was all pointless.
---------------------

Yes and no. A captured working German radar system would have let the Allies know how capable the German systems were. While not quite as useful as reverse-engineering an advanced system to improve your own, it still might provide useful tactical and strategic data that would influence plans being made.

Posted by: junior at March 01, 2014 03:20 PM (fsOaN)

418 With apologies to Lord Tennyson:

"When can their glory fade?

O the wild overcharge they made!

All the world wondered.

Honor the charge they made,

Honor the Light Brigade,

Noble six hundred!"

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 03:22 PM (o3MSL)

419 The Christian would call this satanic, but one does
not have to believe in God or Satan to understand that (for some) there
is a dimension beyond utilitarianism, a war against Conscience itself, a
rebellion against objective value.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 01, 2014 03:11 PM (dfYL9)

Rational men know that evil is real, exists in this very world, and will seep into every aspect of life if unchecked.

Progressive/socialists (BIRM) are convinced that there may well be no tomorrow, so the evil of today that brings them pleasure now, will be forgotten in the new day, if it arrives.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 03:27 PM (o3MSL)

420 Late to the comments. I understand Drew M's point about the memo.

But even if it was a Senate approved treaty that "committed" us to defending the Ukraine, I reject the idea that any treaty obligates us to go to war if at the time it isn't in our national interest or national desire to do so.

Posted by: Taco Shack at March 01, 2014 03:35 PM (C+qQ0)

421 Everyone kicking President Obama in the pills over this, fair enough but remember: Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was president and he did basically nothing about it. There was a stern letter and speech, and then nothing.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 03:43 PM (zfY+H)

422 Zombie-- re: abortion

To destroy the "old" culture more quickly by breaking continuity between generations.

The Old Believers are done having babies.

Their children and grandchildren (the ones who grew up with mixed influences-- old values vs. indoctrination) are currently fertile.

The Left only wants their New Believers to exist.

Posted by: JeanQ at March 01, 2014 04:02 PM (82lr7)

423 Just read that our great and fearless panty-waist Baroque skipped the National Security meeting today regarding Ukraine. He will be briefed, however, but Susan Rice!

Any bets he golfed instead?

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Judge of Raciss Morons at March 01, 2014 04:06 PM (baL2B)

424 Also, Zombie:

My better half says-- we are being desensitized to the act of killing.

Posted by: JeanQ at March 01, 2014 04:07 PM (82lr7)

425 ...the act of killing our own...specifically.

Posted by: JeanQ at March 01, 2014 04:13 PM (82lr7)

426 422 Zombie-- re: abortion

To destroy the "old" culture more quickly by breaking continuity between generations.

The Old Believers are done having babies.

Their children and grandchildren (the ones who grew up with mixed influences-- old values vs. indoctrination) are currently fertile.

The Left only wants their New Believers to exist.

Posted by: JeanQ

Intriguing theories! Noted.

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 04:14 PM (mizYg)

427 ...
Also, consider the lure of transgression for the sake of transgression. I have it on very good authority that there are SOME people involved in the abortion industry who actually ENJOY that they are doing evil.
A sort of Nietzschean transvaluation of values, the triumph of the will over conscience, stimulates them.

Read accounts of the Nazi camps, read accounts of Kermit Gosnell and other abortionists, especially the late-term ones. You will see that among the soul-deadened, "banal" malefactors there are some who love evil precisely because it is evil, not just because it is "useful."
The Christian would call this satanic, but one does not have to believe in God or Satan to understand that (for some) there is a dimension beyond utilitarianism, a war against Conscience itself, a rebellion against objective value.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille

Whoa, this is getting deep. My "single sentence" summary social-conservative theories about the rationale for abortion advocacy is transforming into a full-blown PhD thesis!

Posted by: zombie at March 01, 2014 04:18 PM (mizYg)

428 More specifically, the GMC, 6x6 2 1/2Ton LEND LEASE Truck. Rarely mentioned. The Russians were running logistics with trucks while the German were, primarily, still horse drawn.

Few historians give that the credit it is due.

Professionals study Logistics.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Rounding Error Extraordinaire at March 01, 2014 02:18 PM (4mQWw)

Actually, the US6 trucks shipped to Russia were all made by Studebaker, and had little in common with the GMC truck, which was standard issue for U.S. troops in the ETO. Some 160,000 Studebaker US6 trucks were shipped to Russia. By using the GMC trucks exclusively in the ETO, and shipping the Studebaker trucks to Russia, the logistics of supplying and stocking spare parts for each fleet were also simplified.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 01, 2014 04:20 PM (yDmQD)

429 the act of killing our own...specifically.

Posted by: JeanQ at March 01, 2014 04:13 PM (82lr7)

You can't get much more desensitized to "killing" than when you sanction the abortion of your own flesh and blood!
Once you get that down pat, it is an easy step to believe that "killing" the "other" is the "right" thing for all concerned.

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 04:22 PM (o3MSL)

430 This is going to put the differences in NATO to the test.

It hasn’t been mentioned, but any hope to a break through of any kind in the Middle East died yesterday in the Crimea.

Nobody will believe the assurances of the US.

Posted by: Law of Unintended Consequences at March 01, 2014 04:26 PM (e8kgV)

431 Posted by: Law of Unintended Consequences at March 01, 2014 04:26 PM (e8kgV)

But the TOP.MEN said that Putin would never call our bluff!

Posted by: Hrothgar at March 01, 2014 04:29 PM (o3MSL)

432 Hrothgar:

You can't get much more desensitized to "killing" than when you sanction the abortion of your own flesh and blood!

Just watching the debate unfold, will help to desensitize *everyone*

Once you get that down pat, it is an easy step to believe that "killing" the "other" is the "right" thing for all concerned.

Agreed.

Posted by: JeanQ at March 01, 2014 04:30 PM (82lr7)

433 Bill Clinton: truly the worst president* we ever had. Nobody embodied can-kicking for short term gain more than Bill Clinton.

*Obama, remember, is a Caesar.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 01, 2014 04:43 PM (Kqtqx)

434 It hasn’t been mentioned, but any hope to a break through of any kind in the Middle East died yesterday in the Crimea.

That ship sailed when the palestinians walked out of Camp David. They would have gotten everything except a wedding cake.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 01, 2014 04:44 PM (Kqtqx)

435 (With apologies and thanks to Alfred, Lord Tennyson, and English majors.)

"The Charge against the Light Bringer"

Half a world, half a world,
half a world over,
While our President dithers,
Our enemies grow bolder.
'Forward! Hope and Change!'
'Confiscate their guns!' He said:
While our nation grows weak
Our enemies grow bolder.

'Forward! Hope and Change!'
Who knew that we were play'd?
Not those bumpersticker'd
With that mantra display'd:
"Because shut up," their reply,
"We don't need a reason why,"
"Why don't you f-off and die!"
While our nation grows weak
Our enemies grow bolder.

Reid to the left of him,
Pelosi to the other left of him,
Maddow in front of them,
Hector'd and scold'd;
Peddling the lies they had to sell,
Bald faced and shameless to tell,
While jawboning us to death,
While our nation goes to Hell
Our enemies grow bolder.

Rhetoric empty and bare,
Rhetoric hangs in air,
Red lines that aren't really there,
Waiting and watching while
All the world wonder'd:
Far from the tear-gas smoke,
Through your 'red line' they broke,
Fascist and Russian
Delver'd the fatal stroke;
A nation now sunder'd.
While our nation dither'd
Our enemies grew bolder.

Reid to the left of him,
Pelosi to the other left of him,
Maddow in front of them,
Hector'd and scold'd;
Peddling the lies they had to sell,
While our ambassador fell,
With those who fought so well,
"What difference does it make?"
From hearts darkened by Hell,
And our nation goes to sleep,
Our enemies grow bolder.

Why does our glory fade?
O the promises made!
All the world wonder'd.
Dishonor'd 'Hope and Change',
Dishonor'd to our shame,
Our enemies embolden'd!

Posted by: goozer at March 01, 2014 04:58 PM (GITyA)

436 Posted by: goozer at March 01, 2014 04:58 PM (GITyA)

I approve!

Posted by: A. Lord Tennyson at March 01, 2014 05:00 PM (o3MSL)

437 That was brilliant, goozer.

Posted by: rickl at March 01, 2014 05:41 PM (sdi6R)

438 Not seeing this as a good thing.

1) We sign a treaty with the Ukraine to get their nukes in return for defense.

2) They get invaded.

3) We say "read the fine print" and ignore them.

Yes, that might be a good position now, as we don't have to fight. But the impact on foreign policy doing this seems problematic.

Or is it good that everyone thinks we'll go back on any promises we make when we engage in foreign policy?

How much is the word of an honorless person worth?

Posted by: gekkobear at March 01, 2014 05:56 PM (2zHxV)

439 Since the Ukrainian opposition didn't value their SIGNED agreement with Yanukovich, I don't see why they can be upset over someone dishonoring another signed agreement

Posted by: Aristotle at March 01, 2014 06:14 PM (UTwCK)

440 This is a great lesson for Iran, never trust the US and it's ally's
Never believe any treaty that US and Israel proposes
Get your nukes!!

Posted by: Mike at March 01, 2014 06:27 PM (Hdrr7)

441 438 Not seeing this as a good thing.

Posted by: gekkobear at March 01, 2014 05:56 PM (2zHxV)

It's not a good thing. Now every dictator in the world knows that defense agreements with the United States can't be trusted. Our allies know that we will turn our backs on them when the chips are down. More and more countries will race to develop nuclear weapons. All this will serve to further isolate America, and ensure that no one will come to our aid when we're in trouble.

On the other hand, who wants nuklar combat toe to toe with the Rooskies?

Posted by: rickl at March 01, 2014 06:27 PM (sdi6R)

442 grammie winger -

There are isolated cases of young women being forced to go through an abortion when they had already changed their mind or doing so under threat of violence. I know personally of isolated cases where minors went through with these procedures because their parents told them they had no other legal options and the clinic agreed.

However, many activists in the pro-life movement have a unique notion of "force" in these situations. They spent a lot of time recently waving around a statistic that claimed that 65% of ALL abortions were forced. I took a look at the source of their statistic and it was based on a survey of 217 women who agreed to be questioned about their experiences, and even THEIR experiences were a mixed bag: while 65% of them said they "felt pressured", 78% of them also stated that they felt satisfied with the counseling they received before the procedure, etc

"Feeling pressured" is the not the same as being forced into doing something expressly against your will. If someone is pressuring you to do something and you feel it's wrong but do it anyway, you are still responsible for your actions. To believe otherwise is to say that women bear no responsibility for their actions and cannot refrain from choosing otherwise when an option is suggested to them.

And I have often heard "force" being suggested as something far, far less insidious than even "feeling pressured". If a counselor or a boyfriend suggests pregnancy, or if a husband complains about possible financial strain and never even learns of the pregnancy, or even is merely not enthusiastic ENOUGH when he is informed of it, it's often considered "coercion" and the woman is immediately absolved of ANY responsibility whatsoever. The mentality seems to exist than any woman in these situations is utterly incapable of entertaining any independent thought whatsoever and HAS to do whatever is suggested to her.

There's a very ugly strain of radical feminism and man-bashing that is reflected in such rhetoric, and I don't care for it one bit. And I do fear that it could be used to absolve women of any criminal penalty in child abuse or infanticide cases if it is adopted more broadly.

None of this changes my belief that abortion is wrong. But I also strongly believe in personal responsibility, and if we cannot trust women to refrain from violence against their children (including those who have already been born) then I don't see much hope for civilized society.

Posted by: Kat at March 01, 2014 06:28 PM (aDbR7)

443 "Since the Ukrainian opposition didn't value their SIGNED agreement with Yanukovich"

Maybe they figured having the army sent after them changed the deal.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2014 06:35 PM (zfY+H)

444 Oh, and on a broader note the issue of personal responsibility been seen as an inducer of "shame" is a huge part of why the left is so pro-abortion: no one is responsible for undergoing *any* action that they take, and to ask them to is cruel and vindictive. The pro-life movement may not feel that they are a part of this, but their rhetoric often proves otherwise.

I do not feel any shame in judging women who have taken the lives of their own children, and I don't see why I should feel obligated not to. After all, we do not feel shame when men do the exact same thing. One cannot base a society off of whether the person involved learns to forgive themselves. It is deeply irrelevant to the question of whether what they did was wrong, and it will not protect their future victims.

(At this point, I really don't care in what respect abortion stays legal. I just want to stay free of being compelled to participate in it and I don't want the legal immunity given to pregnant women to extend beyond birth. Draw a line in the sand and treat everyone afterwards as responsible adults who are responsible for their own actions. Enough with this crap about women as eternal victims, though).

Posted by: Kat at March 01, 2014 06:39 PM (aDbR7)

445 Ukrainians are commemorating the 70th anniversary of the Stalin regime's forced farm-collectivization program -- a process that culminated in a man-made famine in one of the world's most fertile regions. An estimated 14 million people died of starvation, mostly in Ukraine but also in the North Caucasus, Kazakhstan and Russia. In a three-part series, RFE/RL correspondent Askold Krushelnycky reports on the motivation behind Josef Stalin's notorious plan, the memories of those who survived the famine, and why even today so little is known about the tragedy
Stalin did not do this alone, Russia was the culprit
At this point all of the x- soviet republic's should invade russia and do some of their own exterminating

Posted by: Mike at March 01, 2014 06:41 PM (Hdrr7)

446 370 Miguel de Cervantes,

Very interesting. I always found Exhale to be a somewhat perplexing, and really very sad, group. I do hope that your family member has found peace.
Lauren
--//-/////

She grieves for her lost baby to this day. Forming Exhale was her way of dealing with her actions, as well as in reaction to her anger at feminists who brushed off her attempts to express grief and doubt. The fact that she grieves gives me hope for her. She has not hardened her heart and become a jaded harpy. Her abortion happened at the age of 17, and apparently her mother pushed the idea. Afterwards,
she originally joined a pro-life group but turned against them for reasons I do not know. Btw, she published her story, so I'm not breaking a confidence. I grieve that we lost a member of our family as well. Please keep her in your prayers. She is a Christian and in so many ways a beautiful, wonderful young women.

Posted by: Posted by: Miguel de Cervantes at March 01, 2014 06:50 PM (oBJsb)

447 Every country that thinks it has a security assurance with the US is watching what happens in the Ukraine. Good luck keeping nuclear ambitions in check once they see what happens when you trade nukes for a Clinton promise.

Posted by: Mr. Feverhead at March 01, 2014 08:59 PM (6ahup)

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